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Posts by Zanick
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2018-04-04 at 11:10 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meatYes, believe it or not, it's difficult arguing ethics with someone who expects you to pull an ethic out of a hat.
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2018-04-04 at 10:57 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe No, there is no moral obligation. People are not morally obligated to do anything. Some people prefer to live life a certain way, but they have no moral obligation to.
You could dispose of the entire discipline of ethics with such an argument. I don't believe that is your intention, though.
I think that you're arguing in bad faith. You don't like that my thread became successful and yours didn't. That's why you grafted the discussion about plants here, and that's why you're trying to drown us in circular logic crafted specifically to stifle discussion. I'd appreciate if this passive-aggressive behavior would stop. I never did anything to you, I just happened to make a thread that took off and now I'm trying to maintain it. It's really not so different from yours, in that regard. -
2018-04-04 at 10:39 PM UTC in WARNeither does my car, your mom still doesn't complain when I pick her up.
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2018-04-04 at 10:33 PM UTC in WARNow that's a good $60,000 purchase, I'll throw a few thousand your way if you buy one of those.
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2018-04-04 at 10:30 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe No such obligation exists. There are lots of things we may not like about the world but we have no obligation to do anything about any of them. Do you think murder is wrong? Why not make a thread about how we have a moral obligation to prevent murders? I don't know why but I believe it is because you prefer to talk about this subject. If you saw someone murdering people, I don't know if you would try to prevent it from happening or if you would run or hide or how you would react, but you wouldn't have any moral obligation to do anything at all, even if you think murder is wrong. Some people might prefer to not eat meat, but nobody has an obligation to not eat meat.
That's exactly wrong. I haven't made a thread about stopping murders because murder is illegal pretty much everywhere. If you want there to be a thread about stopping murder between humans, you're welcome to make a thread about it. I don't think you'll find many people who want to debate you on that subject, however. I won't discuss it at length in here because it would be off-topic, just like those pages on the subject of plants.
Just by living in a commonwealth full of people who don't want to be murdered, you are tacitly agreeing to help them prevent murders. Most of the time, this obligation is mediated through your tax dollars, which pay law enforcement to apprehend the killers and judges to sentence them. But if you see a murder or know of one, you are obligated to provide your statement, legally and ethically. That you consider this optional from a moral standpoint is very worrisome.
So yes, murder is wrong, and you do have to stop it. I don't expect you to jump in front of the bullet, but if you make a 911 call and make yourself available for questioning, you'll have done your job. Unless you'd like to investigate the different kinds of murder you might ignore, I think you should let this point go. -
2018-04-04 at 10 PM UTC in WAR
Originally posted by BigLuigi I'm still estimating the materials as I finish specifying components but it shouldn't be more than 60,000 US. Which I know sounds like a ton but a lot of people spend 45-60k on cars and I would use this a lot more than the average person uses their car.
The cost of your desk could pay for my district representative to be in session and voting on shit in the state capital for an entire year. -
2018-04-04 at 9:49 PM UTC in WARWhat are your estimated expenses and how do you justify their necessity to the project?
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2018-04-04 at 9:47 PM UTC in EMERGENCY: Guys I NEED to find Kinkou!I would also like to know that she is okay.
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2018-04-04 at 9:22 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe I already told you how I feel about factory farms. I said I felt bad for those animals. But that doesn't mean anyone has a moral obligation to stop eating meat. I think the conditions in those farms could be better, I feel bad for those animals, but I don't think anyone has a moral obligation to do anything about it at all.
Supply and demand: If you don't agree with how a business is conducting themselves, stop buying from them. It's one of the few political choices you can make in this country as a private citizen. There is historical precedence for Americans to boycott the meat industry: when horrible conditions for animals and laborors, along with a thoroughly corrupt meat grading process, were exposed in Chicago's meatpacking district early in the 20th century, citizens and government alike converged to institute reform. Had we not, the consequences would have been a disaster on each of those fronts. It is not only your obligation to demand change, but it is also your privilege as a consumer. -
2018-04-04 at 9:10 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe I don't agree with that. I eat meat and I dont think its wrong that an animal died. When we build a new building and animals have their natural habitats destroyed and they have to find new homes or get killed in the process, I don't think it's wrong. I feel bad for these animals but I don't think I'm a bad person. When I see mice that died from chewing through wires or birds that died by falling into street lights, I don't feel like I did anything wrong at all. It's just stuff happening. Whether this stuff is right or wrong is an opinion, not a fact.
That's exactly what I was asking, thank you. We've established that you think hurting animals because we enjoy it is wrong, and additionally, you feel bad for animals who die inadvertently as a result of human activities. So, why not sympathize with animals who are being purposefully killed with inhumane methods, and who suffer greatly because of it? Why does the fact that you get a burger out of it make it permissible? -
2018-04-04 at 9:03 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition.
Originally posted by hydromorphone Well, while here 1337 got a fucked infection in his groin/thighs on both sides and instead of listen to me and take care of it properly in the beginning, he's now in the hospital,needed emergency surgery at 4am on Saturday edit: morning (he got the ER Friday night, had a second surgery Monday, and as I post this,he's in for another surgery now. Last surgery,they nicked the artery and he almost bled out. The area they cleaned out like is nothing but exposed blood vessels and they are trying to transfer him somewhere else for plastic surgery to fix this shit. He's been all fucked up.
Just thought I'd mention that. Before all that, I was in the hospital regarding complications with my pregnancy and epilepsy. I was really fucked up there for a while… Still am,and now dealing with this shit too.
If it can go wrong, it will go wrong, is what I've found to be true in my life. Oh and they were only giving him 4mg of morphine,the whole hospital is out of hydromorphone, and fucking he's been in extreme pain. I've just been giving him T-PAIN through his central line they got in him and that's the only thing really working.
I hate fucking doctors. Fingers crossed I don't become a widow before we're even married a month and have a baby growing up without a father. Pisses me off he didn't listen to me and take care of himself before it got this bad.
What sort of hospital runs out of pain medicine? -
2018-04-04 at 7:40 PM UTC in If you love Animals, this will make your heart meltExactly as it should be.
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2018-04-04 at 6:34 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe You don't have to keep giving me the same argument phrased in different ways. Just give me an argument that works. You will not be able to do that because morality is relative. Demonstrate otherwise. I'll wait until you do.
I'm trying to demonstrate it, but you're dodging my questions. We've agreed that harming animals for its own sake is immoral: can we furthermore agree that it's not desirable even as a byproduct of our human activity? -
2018-04-04 at 6:31 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop posting in zanick's gay ass meat thread.
Originally posted by GasTheKikesRaceWarNow Do you implicitly support her actions?
Originally posted by Obbe "Meat is murder but shooting people is fine."
I'll shoot and eat both of you if I get the chance, and I'll share you with all my vegan friends and tell them it's tofu. They'll squeal about how good the sauce is (there won't be sauce) and I'll tell them it's Worcestershire and they'll demand the recipe, but I won't tell them it came from you because that would ruin the fun. -
2018-04-04 at 6:26 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe You want me to tell you the same thing phrased in a different way? What??
This is just getting ridiculous Zanick. Since you have accepted that morality is relative and that we do not share a moral obligation to stop eating meat I am fine with just not posting in this thread anymore.
Shocking, right? You'll remember though that you've had me give the same arguments over again more than a dozen times in this thread. I don't think it's unreasonable that you write me a couple lines regarding your feelings on factory farming despite your having done so in one other place.
I wasn't actually accepting that morality is relative, I was agreeing to conduct the debate on familiar ground for you and prove that it's still wrong even within your relativistic framework, but if you're content with where we are, I would encourage you to leave. -
2018-04-04 at 6:15 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meatSo we can agree, then, that hurting animals is not a good in-and-of-itself? Surely, we can also agree that it is not a desirable product of human activity?
Originally posted by Obbe I'm glad you see that morality is relative and that therefore none of us share your moral obligations. No I don't hurt animals. I already told you what I think about industrial farming. Animals probably do get injured due to the nature of my work.
I've offered you several arguments from my position and rephrased them at your request, so might I ask that you do the same for me? -
2018-04-04 at 6:06 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop posting in zanick's gay ass meat thread.
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2018-04-04 at 6:02 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by benny vader irrelevant who am i. the thing is that here, im free to torture and animal anyway i please before the slaughter and theres not a single gott damm rules against it.
you should see the aquarium where they keep the catfishes.
lol, this entire thread and the mille posts in it is based on your phalse dillema.
this entire is it moral to meat or not to meat is a pha fucking lse dilemma.
pha fucking lse.
why should we you and not you us ???
The title can't be a false dilemma because it doesn't present you with an option. I think this is your way of giving up: becoming increasingly incoherent until I wonder whether I was crazy for ever believing you had an argument at all. -
2018-04-04 at 6 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe Of course I agree with that. I said several times that morality is relative. You claimed that we all have the same moral obligation. That's simply not true. What you consider to be wrong is not what everyone else does or should consider to be wrong.
Right, morality is relative. Noted. One more question, though: do you hurt animals is your free time? Do you hurt them for your job? What would you say is good about hurting animals, aside from providing meat? -
2018-04-04 at 5:42 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Obbe I want you to understand that your claim isn't true.
I don't think you can do that. Normative ethical claims aren't predicated on a truth value because you don't find ethics in the wild. They are a product of human relationships, and you operate on their basis every day. To say that you don't employ morality in a number of your decisions on a daily basis is obviously a fabrication because you probably don't rape or cannibalize people - that I know of. So, if we can agree there are certain ethical presuppositions with which you align yourself, are you open to considering that there might be others?
