User Controls
Conflict Shitpile III - Diplomacy Defunct Edition
-
2018-01-20 at 1:21 PM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader what about state actors like russia ??? or even US for that matter ???
are they capable of this ??? to me it seems very likely.
something to think about: paper currency in virtually all first-world nations has some of the most sophisticated anti-counterfeiting technology available added to it...yet every single one has been or is being counterfeited.
explosive taggants are designed to detect amateur terrorists, explosives thieves, and mad-bombers. not prevent counterfeiting.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-01-20 at 4:51 PM UTC
Originally posted by infinityshock something to think about: paper currency in virtually all first-world nations has some of the most sophisticated anti-counterfeiting technology available added to it…yet every single one has been or is being counterfeited.
explosive taggants are designed to detect amateur terrorists, explosives thieves, and mad-bombers. not prevent counterfeiting.
i c. -
2018-01-21 at 12:29 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra Turkey is now shelling Kurdish villages across the border and is preparing a large-scale strike against Afrin.
They've started bombing YPG positions around Afrin from the air and ordered their 'rebels' to storm the place. I'm not currently aware of which groups they're still able to command directly but I'll try to find out.
Best part: they've called it "Operation Olive Branch" -
2018-01-21 at 3:48 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra They've started bombing YPG positions around Afrin from the air and ordered their 'rebels' to storm the place. I'm not currently aware of which groups they're still able to command directly but I'll try to find out.
Best part: they've called it "Operation Olive Branch"
i was reading about that earlier. its fucking hilarious...the saudis are trying to kill the kurds...in syria...who are trying (allegedly) to kill ISIS...as well as ???? (allegedly the bad-syrians) while being financed/armed/trained by the west/US. a cluster fuck of biblical proportions.
there were twitter-twits from the saudi .gov showing pics of alleged 'ter'rist' targets they 'sploded. im amazed they were able to get their birds off the ground...much less drop any ordnance onto the ground without some sort of keystone-kops-esque cluster fuck. im willing to bet the pilots were non-saudi mercs. -
2018-01-21 at 4:41 AM UTCAre the Saudis involved too or did you mix up KSA and Turkey?
SDF command has stated only around 20 people (civilians and fighters) have been killed in the bombings, which I'd guess is a huge understatement.
Apparently regular military are going in today or tomorrow -
2018-01-21 at 4:51 AM UTC
-
2018-01-21 at 5:36 AM UTC
-
2018-01-21 at 10:39 AM UTC
-
2018-01-21 at 10:55 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra If the US attacks first, China backs NK.
Even before that though, NK has artillery that can hit anywhere on the island from the DMZ, where would you evacuate an entire city to?
surely south korea aren't so stupid that they haven't build effective air raid shelters ready for just such a situation?
. -
2018-01-21 at 11:52 AM UTC1. They'd have to be massive shelters to support the population of multiple major cities - I know China and the USSR had projects like that, but they were extremely expensive and maintenance was ridiculously difficult. Both of those are officially abandoned and unofficially filled with homeless people.
2. Getting hundreds of thousands of people into shelters takes time and planning
3. This is artillery we're talking about - there's no real warning like you'd get with long-range radar picking up bombers; a shell lands less than a minute after it's fired and most of them can be prepped and fired at a moment's notice.
I read a quote about this a while back - paraphrasing because I don't have the source on me, but the guy's a US commander stationed in SK -
"I never understood people making a big deal about NK's use of 'World War II Era Artillery' - you're going to be just as dead if you get hit with a howitzer round as you would if it was a JDAM. Further, unless you go with something overly broad like 'knife' or 'gun', WWII-era artillery has probably killed more people than any other weapons system in history" -
2018-01-21 at 12:32 PM UTCin WW2 the british set up some pretty effective shelters in a flash. ok, they might not save everyone but it would limit casualties massively. plus the underground stations were used, which i'm sure seoul has. i don't care how much artillery you got, you ain't covering every square inch of an entire city within a few minutes. to do that would take weeks of intense constant artillery fire. you could get everyone into shelters within 15 minutes, half hour max.
plus south korea would be well within their rights to immediately start shelling and bombing the north korean artillery in retaliation, which would hinder their effectiveness massively.
. -
2018-01-21 at 12:56 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist plus south korea would be well within their rights to immediately start shelling and bombing the north korean artillery in retaliation, which would hinder their effectiveness massively.
Regardless of what the media have been hyping, NK's military doctrine does not allow for a pre-emptive strike, which Kim has stated many times.
The point of the artillery 'matrix' isn't to actually win a war; it's spread out and hidden in such a way that it'd be impossible to destroy them all (or even a significant portion) before they can do real damage, ie. to make any aggression against them an incredibly bloody affair - an effective deterrent. It's the same principle as nuclear MAD only on a regional scale.
That said, given the recent rapprochement and what's been said, it's likely that in the case of war NK's artillery would only be used against US military installations and offensive SK bases.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-01-21 at 1:12 PM UTC
-
2018-01-21 at 1:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra 1. They'd have to be massive shelters to support the population of multiple major cities - I know China and the USSR had projects like that, but they were extremely expensive and maintenance was ridiculously difficult. Both of those are officially abandoned and unofficially filled with homeless people.
and feral dogs...
Originally posted by aldra 2. Getting hundreds of thousands of people into shelters takes time and planning
millions.
jedi-land tries it on a regular basis when mudslimes launch flying-propane tanks in their general direction and its always a cluster fuck...regardless of how many times theyve done it for practice and for real.
Originally posted by aldra 3. This is artillery we're talking about - there's no real warning like you'd get with long-range radar picking up bombers; a shell lands less than a minute after it's fired and most of them can be prepped and fired at a moment's notice.
I read a quote about this a while back - paraphrasing because I don't have the source on me, but the guy's a US commander stationed in SK -
"I never understood people making a big deal about NK's use of 'World War II Era Artillery' - you're going to be just as dead if you get hit with a howitzer round as you would if it was a JDAM. Further, unless you go with something overly broad like 'knife' or 'gun', WWII-era artillery has probably killed more people than any other weapons system in history"
artillery is the cheapest and most efficient means of killing stuff or breaking things.
artillery shells from about 155mm on up make a fairly distinct sound when theyre incoming. problem is you cant really get out of their way or do much about it other than clench your ass cheeks or take a last puff of your cigarette. -
2018-01-21 at 1:47 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist in WW2 the british set up some pretty effective shelters in a flash. ok, they might not save everyone but it would limit casualties massively. plus the underground stations were used, which i'm sure seoul has. i don't care how much artillery you got, you ain't covering every square inch of an entire city within a few minutes. to do that would take weeks of intense constant artillery fire. you could get everyone into shelters within 15 minutes, half hour max.
plus south korea would be well within their rights to immediately start shelling and bombing the north korean artillery in retaliation, which would hinder their effectiveness massively.
.
The Brits never faced WW2 artillery. WW2 artillery means things like katyushas and truck mounted or self propelled guns that fire 10+ times a minute. Not WW1 bag of cordite shit. -
2018-01-21 at 1:59 PM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 The Brits never faced WW2 artillery. WW2 artillery means things like katyushas and truck mounted or self propelled guns that fire 10+ times a minute. Not WW1 bag of cordite shit.
i think you are still over thinking their effectiveness against an entire city. think Sarajevo, it was shelled to fuck for what, two years constantly? yeah it was a major inconvenience and people were getting killed left right and center, but people still managed to find a way to get on with their daily lives(albeit pretty shitty lives, agreed). so if N Korea started shelling Seoul, how long you think its gonna take for S Korea, aided by the US and prolly most of the united nations to take out those artillery, or even engage in a full on assault of N Korean mainland. At least the southern part consisting of what, 30/40 mile range of an artillery shell?
. -
2018-01-21 at 2:04 PM UTCalso, you know seoul is all high rise skyscrapers with underground parking. most people got natural shelters built in just downstairs.
. -
2018-01-21 at 3:07 PM UTC
-
2018-01-21 at 3:07 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist i think you are still over thinking their effectiveness against an entire city. think Sarajevo, it was shelled to fuck for what, two years constantly? yeah it was a major inconvenience and people were getting killed left right and center, but people still managed to find a way to get on with their daily lives(albeit pretty shitty lives, agreed). so if N Korea started shelling Seoul, how long you think its gonna take for S Korea, aided by the US and prolly most of the united nations to take out those artillery, or even engage in a full on assault of N Korean mainland. At least the southern part consisting of what, 30/40 mile range of an artillery shell?
stalingrad, WWIIThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-01-21 at 3:19 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist i think you are still over thinking their effectiveness against an entire city. think Sarajevo, it was shelled to fuck for what, two years constantly? yeah it was a major inconvenience and people were getting killed left right and center, but people still managed to find a way to get on with their daily lives(albeit pretty shitty lives, agreed). so if N Korea started shelling Seoul, how long you think its gonna take for S Korea, aided by the US and prolly most of the united nations to take out those artillery, or even engage in a full on assault of N Korean mainland. At least the southern part consisting of what, 30/40 mile range of an artillery shell?
You're missing the point of bringing up the artillery in the first place - like I said, the strategy isn't designed to win a war, it's designed as a deterrent so that NK can't be attacked without serious repercussions. The range of the artillery is short (in a global sense) though, so they aren't able to mount a credible threat to the US (the ones they perceive as the biggest threat), which is why they're working feverishly on ICBM tech. It's possible that the US would consider massive artillery strikes against SK an 'acceptable loss' and go to war, not so much so if it's their own cities at risk.
If you're interested in how an actual war would play out, there's a lot more to consider than just the artillery pieces.
- The majority of NK's sensitive military and manufacturing facilities are underground
- US intelligence has historically failed to gather any worthwhile intelligence on NK's military
- As such, 'bunker busters' could potentially kill those facilities... if they can find them.
- Even if they're presently unable to mount a nuclear weapon on a missile, that doesn't stop them putting one on a truck or a boat
- They have a large number of TBMs and a smaller number of longer-range missiles
- They have stockpiles of standard nerve agents and various other bio/chemical weapons
- They have 50-70 almost-silent diesel submarines that are presently unaccounted for
- Their army dwarfs what SK + local US bases are able to deploy at ~1.2mil, with around 200k SOF trained to operate behind enemy lines
- a bunch of other shit I can't think of at the moment
The only way the US could walk away with anything resembling a win would be with a pre-emptive nuclear strike, and that'd unravel the 'international order' and the 'MAD doctrine'...
The artillery would cause massive casualties before an air campaign could cripple it. NK lacks modern anti-air weapons so their only option there is to bunker down and hope the US bankrupts itself flinging billion-dollar bunker busters around.
The US and South Korea (if SK is even willing to fight at this point) will not be able to challenge NK's ground army. Sheer numerical advantage and the fact that it's their home would mean massive casualties if they tried, and most of the high-tech 'force multipliers' they rely on in the Middle East are not feasible for Korean terrain.
NK's first targets will be international ports... and Japan. Busan in SK handles most of the shipping traffic in the Pacific. NK's demonstrated it has no trouble flinging missiles as far as Japan, and nuclear (or biochemical) or not, Japan's density means even a single hit will cause mass casualties and/or economic destruction. Shutting down major Japanese and Korean ports will literally break the current economic system's back, and none of the US anti-missile systems deployed in SK or Japan have undergone any real-world testing.
So now NK and US/SK forces are locked into a war of attrition, and we still have those SLBM-capable submarines to worry about. There's no way to be sure what Kim plans to use them for, but if I were him I'd have them loaded with sarin-tipped missiles and waiting for this eventuality to visit the east coast of the US...
