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Are you actually racist or no?
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2017-12-09 at 6:05 PM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon You are retarded. Race is basically a worthless concept in biology and science at large. There is no good or concrete definition for it on any scientific level, and as a classification it basically tells us nothing.
The average person uses terms such as "White" and "Black" (shades) and then "Asian".
In this case it is a social constuct
However Caucasoids, Mongoloids, Negroids, Australoids and Amerindianoids are biologically categorised races
You can take a look at haplotypes to confirm this
Are you really telling me that Mike Tyson and Aziz Ansari are the same race -
2017-12-09 at 6:06 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra I'm mostly talking about immigration and the problems with the concept of 'multiculturalism'.
People who migrate into a host society should be expected to make an effort to integrate themselves; to adopt the host culture to a degree and not form enclaves that undermine the 'social fabric'.
If you're after a specific example, my father's family is Vietnamese and they migrated here to Australia after the Vietnam War. My father, aunts, uncles etc. were forced to integrate through school, but there were many people in that community (most specifically those who were older) who abjectly refused to learn or speak English and would interact only with close family groups - any time they needed to interact with someone outside the circle they'd send the kids.
Things aren't nearly as bad as they used to be, but south-east Asian and Arabic (Lebanese mostly) enclaves caused massive issues in western Sydney in the 90s for the very reason that they didn't understand or respect the host culture. Local groups ranged from indifferent to hostile to police, corruption in local government was an epidemic, there were almost parallel legal systems in operation… Things like that.
and yet videos discussing the matter get delisted on youtube…
I love you. -
2017-12-09 at 6:41 PM UTC
Originally posted by Daily The average person uses terms such as "White" and "Black" (shades) and then "Asian".
In this case it is a social constuct
However Caucasoids, Mongoloids, Negroids, Australoids and Amerindianoids are biologically categorised races
You can take a look at haplotypes to confirm this
Are you really telling me that Mike Tyson and Aziz Ansari are the same race
If you want to get taxonomic, humans hardly have different races. The genealogical difference is so fucking minute compared to other creatures. -
2017-12-09 at 7:09 PM UTC
Originally posted by 哈哈你看不懂中文 There's really little you can do to assimilate enclaves like that. It just takes time I think. Don't see any more Irish enclaves do you?
Well, again, the SF chinese population has had continuity and been sort of insular for like 150 years now. I'm not sure it's a "time heals all wounds" kinda thing -
2017-12-09 at 7:13 PM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader thats assuming their immigrating to a specific country for their culture when their not.
if i immigrate into your country i did so for the living condition and not for your retarded culture and/or language or even the love for your retarded system of government.
and i'm going to say fuck you and your language and culture and i'll only learn your language the bare minimum i needed to survive.
then stay the fuck in the shithole you started out in, handsome and well tanned individual -
2017-12-09 at 7:16 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Well, again, the SF chinese population has had continuity and been sort of insular for like 150 years now. I'm not sure it's a "time heals all wounds" kinda thing
Yes, and the Chinese speak a different language and are of a difference race. The Irish and other Europeans were able to assimilate because there's really no such thing as an ethnically Irish or French person. Everybody's ancestors have already fucked in Europe. Just think of how many cultures have blended into one another in all of history. 150 years ain't shit, and even so we can see obvious assimilation in the number of Asian-Americans who are basically American culturally. It's not like generation after generation of Chinese are staying in SF and never learning English or assimilating into American culture. Just that new people keep coming there and obviously staying with family and whatnot. -
2017-12-09 at 7:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by 哈哈你看不懂中文 If you want to get taxonomic, humans hardly have different races. The genealogical difference is so fucking minute compared to other creatures.
what the shimmering shit are you gibbering on about.
if you want to get all taxonomic and stuff, then explain why modern taxonomy refuses to acknowledge that the organisms currently defined as 'humans' actually belong to multiple different SPECIES, considering classification criteria that is applied to non-human organisms that categorizes various species/sub-species would make 'human' into multiple species/sub-species. -
2017-12-09 at 7:22 PM UTC
Originally posted by 哈哈你看不懂中文 Yes, and the Chinese speak a different language and are of a difference race. The Irish and other Europeans were able to assimilate because there's really no such thing as an ethnically Irish or French person. Everybody's ancestors have already fucked in Europe. Just think of how many cultures have blended into one another in all of history. 150 years ain't shit, and even so we can see obvious assimilation in the number of Asian-Americans who are basically American culturally. It's not like generation after generation of Chinese are staying in SF and never learning English or assimilating into American culture. Just that new people keep coming there and obviously staying with family and whatnot.
No, that's actually the surprising part, it kinda is generation after generation. Obviously second plus generation people are more likely to know the language and exist in that "buffer zone" but it's not a given. There are people born here who never really learn the language, the subculture is big enough that you can live and die in it without really ever going outside of it. -
2017-12-09 at 7:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny No, that's actually the surprising part, it kinda is generation after generation. Obviously second plus generation people are more likely to know the language and exist in that "buffer zone" but it's not a given. There are people born here who never really learn the language, the subculture is big enough that you can live and die in it without really ever going outside of it.
Where is your source for the language/generation thing? I find that incredibly hard to believe as a 2nd gen. It is impossible not to assimilate into American culture at least partially. Many, many 2nd gen don't even speak their parent's mother tongue anymore. This is hastened by the fact that many Chinese immigrants are arriving as educated/skilled workers and probably know some English themselves.
I think you don't have experience inside of these systems. -
2017-12-09 at 8:05 PM UTC
Originally posted by Daily However Caucasoids, Mongoloids, Negroids, Australoids and Amerindianoids are biologically categorised races
No they are not. These are highly dubious anthropological terms that have no biological basis. Dispersal theories/multiregional hypotheses are basically completely unsupported "god of the gaps" arguments that stand in the face of mountains of scientific evidence for monogenesisYou can take a look at haplotypes to confirm this
What about haplotypes? That's like says "tomatoes are a vegetable. You can look at their shape to confirm this".Are you really telling me that Mike Tyson and Aziz Ansari are the same race
I'm telling you that Aziz Ansari and Mike Tyson have some different physical characteristics but there is no meaningful taxonomical distinction to be made between the two. The genetic differences between Aziz Ansari and Mike Tyson are probably roughly as small as Aziz Ansari and any random Indian kid. -
2017-12-09 at 8:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by 哈哈你看不懂中文 Where is your source for the language/generation thing? I find that incredibly hard to believe as a 2nd gen. It is impossible not to assimilate into American culture at least partially. Many, many 2nd gen don't even speak their parent's mother tongue anymore. This is hastened by the fact that many Chinese immigrants are arriving as educated/skilled workers and probably know some English themselves.
I think you don't have experience inside of these systems.
Mostly speaking from experience. I know you have some weird complex about being all worldly and me being naive or sheltered or something but, uhhh, I'm kinda the one who lives here and you aren't. But we can dig up some interesting census statistics:
https://statisticalatlas.com/place/California/San-Francisco/Languages#figure/language-spoken-at-home
64% of people who speak Chinese at home don't speak English "very well", 92K people. "But those are first generation immigrants" you say. Well the data shows there are 85K people here were born in china, out of the 170k with chinese ancestry, so even if 100% of the first generation population primarily speaks Chinese at home and 100% of them don't speak English very well (both facts we know to be false since, as you pointed out, modern immigrants often have good English skills, better than a significant portion of the second generation population even) that still leaves like as a conservative lower bound, 10k people who are second generation and can't speak English very well. -
2017-12-09 at 8:29 PM UTC
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2017-12-09 at 8:37 PM UTCNo, try reading my post again. As an absolute lower bound 12% of second plus generation people of chinese ancestry can not speak the language of the larger society. People born and raised in the US unable to speak English "very well". Being able to speak English doesn't mean you've assimilated, but not being able to definitely means you haven't.
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2017-12-09 at 8:40 PM UTCYou were never very good at math were you?
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2017-12-09 at 8:47 PM UTCLol, ok §m£ÂgØL, please show me the math that supports the statement:
Originally posted by 哈哈你看不懂中文 6% of second generation Chinese immigrants [don't speak English very well].
go ahead, you should just be dividing two numbers. Tell us which two numbers out of my post you picked.
inb4 you never post in this thread again -
2017-12-09 at 8:52 PM UTChahaha, it's actually hilarious that you'd call me bad at math after that display. God damn son, it's OK if you can't figure out how to interpret those numbers but the hubris to call me out when you can't apparently figure out what "second generation" means is fucking comical. Dunning-kruger at it's finest.
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2017-12-09 at 8:54 PM UTCI have dated a Philipino (now my best female friend for the last 17 years) and have been in a relationship with a Bosnian immigrant for a year. I would say mostly no.
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2017-12-09 at 8:57 PM UTC6% of Chinese. 6%. You can't just ignore all the immigrants who have successfully adopted American language.
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2017-12-09 at 8:59 PM UTCNope, that's a different statistic than what we were talking about but you still got it wrong.
I asked you what numbers you divided to get "6% of second generation Chinese immigrants" and I'm still waiting.
You could also admit you were wrong. -
2017-12-09 at 9:11 PM UTCI didn't even realize what I said till you quoted me, typo. We're talking about Chinese immigrants as a whole. You said that second generation immigrants were a problem. It was cyclic.
170k Chinese immigrants. 10k who are 2nd gen but can't speak English well. That is 6% out of the total number of Chinese immigrants. Very clearly not a major problem among Chinese immigrants. Yet you say that Chinese people are actually not assimilating. You calculated out of Chinese born I think, which is strange, considering we are talking about the Chinese immigrant population as a whole, and the assimilation of them through the generations.
