2017-11-13 at 3:18 AM UTC
aldra
JIDF Controlled Opposition
In a situation where you can get your brothers together and robmurder anyone who has something you want, picking up new recruits (willfully or at gunpoint) along the way, do you think those institutions will exist in the first place?
I mean they will at first if you're talking about a current state transitioning into absolute libertarianism, but how do you think they'll survive? Joining an aforementioned gang is the easier option and most people aren't willing to put the extra work in. You could argue that people who regiment themselves are typically more intelligent so you'd start with tactical and technical superiority, but how would you keep that alive in a small group constantly having to fight to keep what it has?
There's been no point in history where a state of anarchy or libertarianism has not rapidly metastatised into large-scale warfare for control over populations and resources (except perhaps in the times where tribes weren't technically able to manage the logistics, but they had plenty of similar small-scale violence too), and I can't think of anything special that would make it any different this time around.
The only thing I could think of would be mutually-assured destruction, but the concept of MAD assumes that everyone holding a nuclear bomb is a sane actor who isn't just going to pull the trigger for fun or because he's mad at his neighbour - the deterrent is gone as soon as the first bomb goes off.
2017-11-13 at 3:29 AM UTC
Do you honestly believe the only reason people aren't murdering each other in the street right now is because of the state? If you get rid of the state, right now. But leave all commercial enterprises, literally nothing would change except for the fact niggers & co would stop receiving welfare. If they can adapt to that great, if not they can leave, we're having a voluntary society after all. Muh roads will be built by companies filling in the demand for them. All the police and military can go into private security or whatever. And government workers are going to have to get real jobs. Anyway, i don't pretend to have a solution for evey single case or thing but neither does the state. All i know is the state, as an entity is the greatest cause of human suffering in the world ever. Every war in history was started by the state, every genocide was made possible through the power of the state. I say do away with the thing, the markets will provide what we need in terms of trade and goods and roads and services. We'll be fucking fine.
Why everyone believes the state is the "lesser of two evils" is beyond me.
2017-11-13 at 3:37 AM UTC
aldra
JIDF Controlled Opposition
What I'm saying is if you were to remove the state, it would just form again organically after a lot of people die
A state, more specifically a single, powerful group sets a 'tone' or guidelines for conduct - without that commonality, factions form along ethnic, religious and family lines and conflict becomes inevitable.
What you're referring to as the state is really just people - mostly horribly nepotistic and corrupt people. What do you think they'll do if the current power structure is dismantled? If we killed them all, do you think more wouldn't emerge?
It's human nature to try to control and victimize each other, and few people seem to have any interest in moving beyond that
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post didn't die in a fire!
2017-11-13 at 3:38 AM UTC
I am user number 64. There are many other numbers assigned to other users but this one is mine. Without my number I am nothing. My number without me is nothing.
2017-11-13 at 4:08 AM UTC
This is why i've mostly given up on arguing politics, it doesn't matter what i say. Everyone will just say: Lol ur dumb, lol ur literally 14, lol etc etc etc.
2017-11-13 at 4:12 AM UTC
Because your arguments are easily debunked by looking at the real world, where millions and millions of people (refugee and not) move to other countries that don't have a welfare system, without any regard for 'fitting into a market.'
2017-11-13 at 4:15 AM UTC
aldra
JIDF Controlled Opposition
Whether or not it works out that way depends on how severe the punishment for criminality is - very few people would immigrate if they knew that there were no opportunities and trying to steal to survive would get you killed; the living situation would be objectively worse than wherever they're coming from
2017-11-13 at 4:20 AM UTC
In what real life situation has there ever been 'no opportunities'? People make opportunities to work. They'll sell food or trinkets or wash cars or prostitute themselves or etc. It's not like people are going to go "Aw shit, well I guess I'm just going to go back where I came from since I can't find a job." We didn't survive this long as a species by giving up easily.
2017-11-13 at 4:25 AM UTC
aldra
JIDF Controlled Opposition
Way to miss the point
If their prospects were worse than they are where they presently live (ie. high likelihood of being shot), there would be very few that'd try it.
That's not to say it's a reasonably feasible outcome, but we're not talking in realistic terms here anyway
