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Conflict Shitpile
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2017-04-08 at 3:49 AM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon This is aldra's thread. It doesn't need anyone to bump or direct it.
feel free to contribute; I only post when I can/when I see something interesting so bumping won't do anything.
Originally posted by aldra turns out RU did shoot a bunch of missiles down - that'd probably be why they launched so many
Apparently US cruisers launched 59, 23 landed.
Like I alluded to in the last post, propaganda in media is out of control:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3271382/syria-gas-attack-donald-trump-assad-false-flag-operation-trolls/The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-08 at 3:58 AM UTCAside from being genuinely curious about all of this I also want to use your material to merk reactionary faggots on facebook who believe everything they see on the tee-vee. I should post some of their questions here tbh would you answer them disneyland?
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2017-04-08 at 4:11 AM UTC
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2017-04-08 at 4:13 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra feel free to contribute; I only post when I can/when I see something interesting so bumping won't do anything.
Apparently US cruisers launched 59, 23 landed.
Like I alluded to in the last post, propaganda in media is out of control:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3271382/syria-gas-attack-donald-trump-assad-false-flag-operation-trolls/
the kind of info I'd need to make any kind of realistic assessment on this isn't available to the general public...or even sources as advanced as stratfor. -
2017-04-08 at 4:17 AM UTCoil
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2017-04-08 at 4:18 AM UTC- unidentified UAV infesting the chemweps attack site...
- unidentified (the chemwep they're claiming is BS...sarin doesn't cause foaming at the mouth) chemical agent used
= fucking juden manipulation.
someone needs to do a forensics search on that site before the juden get their slugs in there to scour the evidence they always leaveThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-08 at 6:17 AM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Then shut up.
Fuck you, I'm setting the tone.
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Thought you would find this interesting. The question was about how the Arab Coalition assessed the nuclear threat from Israel during the Yom Kippur War:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/5zkwa3/how_did_the_arab_coalition_evaluate_the_nuclear/dezydxp/I would say that this is the actual 'crucial question' about that conflict: the answers to it would explain a lot of what was really going on between 6 and 25 October 1973.
However, I do not know about any kind of reasonable answers ever being provided. There's nothing in Sadat's memoirs about this topic, for example, nor anything in a number of books by other major Arab commanders published ever since. It seems Egypt and Syria simply concluded Israelis are sane enough to understand that their war aims were no 'destruction of Israel' - as often insisted in all possible Israeli and Western publications right to our days - but 'liberation of Arab land occupied by Israel since 1967'. Therefore, nuclear deterrent was unnecessary.
That said, there is - strong but circumstantial - evidence that the actual flow of that war was strongly dictated by something like 'indirect nuclear warfare'. Especially so when it comes to the Israeli air force.
The usual story is, 'IDF/AF suffered heavy losses to SA-6s during the first few days of that war, and then the air power did not play a dominant role'. This, however, is hoghwash: when one is researching this conflict with help of Arab sources, even with help of specific US sources, an entirely different image emerges.
First related indicators can be found in the book The Ramadan War, 1973 by Badri, Magdoub and Zohdy. This contains a sizeable chapter dedicated to a days-long series of fierce Israeli air strikes on the Port Said area. However, the authors of that book are not revealing many details: just offering something like a 'general review'.
Then there are various reports primarily published in specialized US press in the period 1974-1976. Some of these are discussing Soviet delivery of Scuds to Egypt, these having the range to reach central Israel etc., but a few are also discussing rumours about supposed deployment of Soviet nuclear warheads for these to Egypt - or at least raising questions in style of 'what if'…?
When one attempts to cross-examine this entire issue with Israeli publications (documentation is locked and to remain that way for another 40+ years), there's de-facto nothing. Books available in English do not offer any kind of even distantly related issues. Majority of those published in Hebrew are concentrating on discussion of the chaos and (near) -panic in the IDF/AF caused by heavy losses of the first four days, reasons for certain decisions that resulted in major operational failures, and similar (see such like '30 Hours in October' by Shmuel Gordon, 'Days of Recokning by Benjamin Peled, or 'Straightforward' by Dani Haloutz). I do not know about any kind of scholar studies, and even when it comes to serious, professional Israeli studies of Arab warfare in 1973 - like Dani Asher's excellent 'Egyptian Strategy for the Yom Kippur War' - nobody is going into discussing anything related to nuclear warfare.
Something like sole exception from all of this is one book by Shlomo Aloni - an author with 'popular' rather than 'scholar' approach to his work. In the book Israeli Phantoms: The Kurnass in IDF Service, 1969-1988, Aloni stuttered something about the IDF/AF flying few air strikes on Port Said area, 'for testing purposes'.
This is imposing the question of why would the IDF/AF - which just suffered heaviest losses in its history, and had its hand full with fighting Syrians on the Golan - now waste precious crews, aircraft, ammo and time to continuously strike Port Said 'for testing purposes'? Hand on heart: this is making no sense.
After losses of the first few days, the IDF/AF haven't even had enough crews for all of its F-4Es and at least two of its A-4-squadrons were on the verge of mutiny (see 'McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk' by Ra'anan Weiss & Yoav Efrati; certainly enough, it's another publication on the 'popular' side, i.e. prepared primarily for model-builders, but it does contain important clues).
While researching for the book-series Arab MiGs - Volume 5 and Volume 6 of which are discussing operations by Arab air forces during the October 1973 Arab-Israeli war - two teams of researchers interviewed over 200 participants, eyewitnesses or at least family members of those that used to serve with the Egyptian, Iraqi, Syrian, Algerian and Moroccan air forces during that conflict. We've collected and reviewed whatever official documentation from all of involved sides became available over the time (which is rather little), and reviewed nearly every single publication - about air warfare but other aspects of that conflict too.
Quite early during that project, we met and 'de-briefed' several Arab participants that told an entirely different story about what was going on in the Port Said area. Their recollections were very clear: for some 10 days, large formations of the IDF/AF were attacking the area two times a day. However, all of sources in question had one thing in common: they could not provide an explanation for the military purpose of such operations. They were all wondering about extension and duration of Israeli air strikes, but could not explain why were these launched. No matter whom we asked and where we sought, we found no explanation for Israeli attacks on Port Said area.
Similarly, we found no explanation for Israeli air strikes usually said to have resulted in the 'Battle of el-Mansourah', on 14 October 1973 - but which actually targeted the nearby Tanta AB, on that day, and a day later. Here the problem was this: if these were launched with intention to suppress the EAF's and IrAF's operations in support of the Egyptian quasi-offensive of 14 October - as usually reported in available Israeli and Western publications - then they were clearly undertaken much too late.
More importantly, the Israelis knew and evidence that became available ever since (see Asher) is clearly confirming that - contrary to usual legends - the Egyptian 'offensive' of 14 October was anything else than that. No 'super-offensive', or even a large-scale operation aiming to breach the IDF's frontlines and reach the Sinai passes. Far from into what it was stylized ever since ('biggest tank battle since Kursk of 1943') this was a show operation by mere elements from five brigades, resulting in luke-warm attacks. Something the Egyptians could use to say to their allies, 'we've tried'; and something the Israelis happily boomed into a 'super tank battle' - simply because they were in a situation, 'finally some good news, after more than a week of bad news' (and, later on, they couldn't publicly admit, 'we've lied about the scope of that battle').
Things began to change only once an Egyptian researcher found the former CO of the 418th Air Defence Battalion of the Egyptian Air Defence Command (an independent branch of the Egyptian military). The unit in question was equipped with SA-2s as of 1973, and deployed to Port Said area around 10 October 1973, to bolster local air defences. He said it clearly: I received the order to deploy my unit to Port Said area and protect the launching sites for our Scud missiles.
That's where few 'light bulbs' went on. Port Said was the only area west of Suez Canal, from which Egyptian Scuds could reach central Israel. Unsurprisingly, the Egyptians prepared several launching sites there as soon as they received their Scuds. After failing to destroy Egyptian and Syrian 'SAM-walls' and defeat their air forces in the first days of the war, the IDF/AF switched to 'better be safe than sorry' mode and 'limited' itself to 'area denial' of Port Said - in order to prevent Egyptians from deploying their Scuds there. By keeping the area under pressure, it prevented deployment of Egyptian SSMs into a position from which these could strike central Israel. This was particularly important considering rumours (never confirmed) about supposed deployment of Soviet nukes to Egypt.
Moreover, this explained the Israeli attacks on Tanta too (stylized to 'Battle of el-Mansourah', in Egypt, and ever since celebrated as the Air Force Day - in order to prop Mubarak's public standing): namely, that air base housed Mirage 5s provided by Libyans - the only fighter-bombers with range to reach central Israel and, at least in theory, capable of carrying nukes (Israelis knew this from their own Mirages, after all). Furthermore, re-interviewing several of Egyptian AF commanders based there has shown: together with el-Mansourah, that air base was responsible for protection of the main base of Egyptian Scuds.
Bottom line: Israel had operational nukes as of 1973, but these played no role in Arab planning - because Arabs did not intend to destroy Israel. Their operation was planned as a limited war aiming to recover territories occupied by Israel in 1967, and they concluded the Israelis would be reasonable enough to understand this. The Israelis did understand that part (well, not all of them). Nevertheless, they assessed the threat of Egyptian Scuds as serious enough to devote plenty of their attention and effort to pre-empt it - and this is what dictated many of their aerial operations after 9 October 1973. -
2017-04-08 at 6:44 AM UTC
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2017-04-08 at 7:25 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Aside from being genuinely curious about all of this I also want to use your material to merk reactionary faggots on facebook who believe everything they see on the tee-vee. I should post some of their questions here tbh would you answer them disneyland?
I'll post a thread specifically on the gas/missile attacks later tonight, ask whatever you want there - it'd probably derail this thread a fair bit.
@Captain I'll read that properly shortly -
2017-04-08 at 9:30 AM UTCAnyone hear anything interesting about that F-16 that got shot down over Maryland? Witnesses say the pilot was on fire which would indicate one of those fuel tank seeking missiles was used but I don't see how someone could see that from ground level unless the jet was flying insanely low
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2017-04-08 at 9:52 AM UTCIt's astounding how many people are on board with Syria having done this despite zero evidence towards that. They could've, sure, but why is everyone assuming? I dont think they did, but what the fuck do I know? I'll wait for the evidence. Maybe some of it won't be fuckered with.
God I hate these sheep. I feel like a cocksucker saying that, but Trump just broke international law here and people are up in arms at Syria and not him?
Might I add, the airstrip is still functional and Syrian and Russian craft are still using it to takeoff. This whole thing just reeks of your mother's vagina. Yes, YOURS.
) FISHY( -
2017-04-08 at 10:23 AM UTC
Originally posted by Discount Whore It's astounding how many people are on board with Syria having done this despite zero evidence towards that. They could've, sure, but why is everyone assuming? I dont think they did, but what the fuck do I know? I'll wait for the evidence. Maybe some of it won't be fuckered with.
God I hate these sheep. I feel like a cocksucker saying that, but Trump just broke international law here and people are up in arms at Syria and not him?
Might I add, the airstrip is still functional and Syrian and Russian craft are still using it to takeoff. This whole thing just reeks of your mother's vagina. Yes, YOURS.
) FISHY(
Indeed. My entire family is singing the praises of trump after this shit and I'm the only one saying how fucking stupid this is. They believe what the news says rather than me even though I've proven the news wrong time after time after time
It's pretty shitty knowing that the person you voted for probably just started world War 3. -
2017-04-08 at 10:47 AM UTCAlso I'm going to try to contribute more to this thread in the future but I've lately been staying out of politics and such for my own sanity
But with WWIII on the horizon I don't think that's going to be an option -
2017-04-08 at 11:19 AM UTC
Originally posted by Hash Slinging Slasher Also I'm going to try to contribute more to this thread in the future but I've lately been staying out of politics and such for my own sanity
But with WWIII on the horizon I don't think that's going to be an option
Dying in a nuclear blast would be pretty badass all things considered. It will be the most glorious explosion to behold. I just hope i die quickly instead of radiation poisoning. -
2017-04-08 at 12:10 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie Dying in a nuclear blast would be pretty badass all things considered. It will be the most glorious explosion to behold. I just hope i die quickly instead of radiation poisoning.
The bomb is Atom. And thus, we are Atom awaiting the day in which each of us gives birth to a trillion new lives.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-08 at 3:51 PM UTCSYRIA - New US air strike on Raqqa kills 20 civilians reports claim.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Reports%3A_New_US_airstrike_kills_20_civilians_near_Raqqa/57811/0/38/38/Y/M.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter -
2017-04-08 at 3:58 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie SYRIA - New US air strike on Raqqa kills 20 civilians reports claim.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Reports%3A_New_US_airstrike_kills_20_civilians_near_Raqqa/57811/0/38/38/Y/M.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Got raqt -
2017-04-08 at 4 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie SYRIA - New US air strike on Raqqa kills 20 civilians reports claim.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Reports%3A_New_US_airstrike_kills_20_civilians_near_Raqqa/57811/0/38/38/Y/M.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
more likely they were 'human shields' or intentionally placed in the area to become media bait -
2017-04-09 at 4:52 AM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie SYRIA - New US air strike on Raqqa kills 20 civilians reports claim.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Reports%3A_New_US_airstrike_kills_20_civilians_near_Raqqa/57811/0/38/38/Y/M.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
People talk a lot about drone strikes killing families and I don't get why anybody cares. You know how many other families are dying due to all these fucking batshit Islam groups? How many families die of hunger or thirst, or die trying to flee their country. It's crazy that people care about the very few who get killed by accident in drone strikes. Pretty narrow minded if you ask me. They're a necessary evil. I used to be pretty against getting involved in the east but ISIS controlling vast swaths of land in a short amount of time kind of made me change my mind.
Not saying you're saying these things tho sophie, just rantin' -
2017-04-09 at 4:53 AM UTCHas anybody seen any reports on the sarin itself? I read somewhere (maybe here I don't fucking know) that the victims had foaming at the mouth, which is apparently not in line with sarin. I don't know jack shit tho, I don't have the time to follow this like I'd like :(
