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Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
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2018-01-26 at 1:21 AM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist so just to clarify, your stance is that no criminal is responsible for their behavior and the judges have no right to punish them? would that be correct obbe?
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Nobody is truly responsible for their actions but I still think that if their actions are criminal or "evil" then they should be met with reasonable justice and that society should seek to remedy the root causes of such behavior. -
2018-01-26 at 1:31 AM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind A human being isn't a random number generator. Science can predict your decisons before you make them. Human beings lack free will.
Even merely by looking at a random number generator, you affect your neurology and alter the chain of causality by something outside of causality. There is no reason to believe "science" can predict your decisions after you look at the QRNG, from prior to looking at it. -
2018-01-26 at 2:44 AM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon Even merely by looking at a random number generator, you affect your neurology and alter the chain of causality by something outside of causality. There is no reason to believe "science" can predict your decisions after you look at the QRNG, from prior to looking at it.
You wouldn't "alter" anything. You are either going to use the rng pick a random option for you, or you won't. Whether you choose to or not can be predicted by science. Whatever the rng generates, that isn't a demonstration of your free will. -
2018-01-26 at 3:07 AM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind
You wouldn't "alter" anything. You are either going to use the rng pick a random option for you, or you won't. Whether you choose to or not can be predicted by science. Whatever the rng generates, that isn't a demonstration of your free will.
You not grasping the English language doesn't makes the point invalid. Let's say that all actions up until the point where you looked at a QRNG are predetermined ass the falling of the dominoes of fate. Whatever you do after you look at the QRNG will now factor in something completely causally unconnected to anything that happened before it. No matter how small it is, on some level you are now beyond prediction by any system, regardless of the level of information it has, prior to you seeing the result of the QRNG. You don't even need to use the QRNG to make a choice. It's simply the start of a new causal chain.
More importantly, it perfectly fits your definition of free will. Why does it not? What's missing from a QRNG that makes it "not free will"? -
2018-01-26 at 3:26 AM UTCobbe, why are you bothering to have/partake in this discussion? when according to your theory there is absolutely no point or reason for partaking in discussing anything. what is the point in humans developing language and forms of communication in the first place? it makes zero sense, you fucking imbecile(not my actual thoughts). the best i can fathom of your theory is that you're pretty much saying the entire human race suffers with some kind of tourettes syndrome.
its like think about it tho. if i had an opinion on something, but you're saying that i'm not thinking that, so that's not really my opinion. then that means my opinion on the matter is something else/not that. which means i still have an opinion. even if i don't know what my opinion is on something, i will still have an opinion about it. so if i have an opinion, then i have free will/thought.
.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-01-26 at 3:59 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 4:07 AM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon You not grasping the English language doesn't makes the point invalid. Let's say that all actions up until the point where you looked at a QRNG are predetermined ass the falling of the dominoes of fate. Whatever you do after you look at the QRNG will now factor in something completely causally unconnected to anything that happened before it. No matter how small it is, on some level you are now beyond prediction by any system, regardless of the level of information it has, prior to you seeing the result of the QRNG. You don't even need to use the QRNG to make a choice. It's simply the start of a new causal chain.
:Rofl_Roll_Yellow_3b:
Nothing about that would demonstarte free will. Either our wills are determined by prior causes and we are not responsible for them or they are the product of chance and we are not responsible for them. Even when you look at a qrng everything prior to, following, and including that random event is a still chain of events that you have no influence over. This scenario has nothing to do with you having free will.
Originally posted by Captain Falcon More importantly, it perfectly fits your definition of free will. Why does it not? What's missing from a QRNG that makes it "not free will"?
A QRNG experiences no illusion of free will. It does not feel that it is the conscious source of its thoughts or actions. It has no will whatsoever. It may be "free" in the sense that it generates something randomly, but has nothing to do with the problem of free will that human beings are faced with. -
2018-01-26 at 4:10 AM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist obbe, why are you bothering to have/partake in this discussion? when according to your theory there is absolutely no point or reason for partaking in discussing anything. what is the point in humans developing language and forms of communication in the first place? it makes zero sense, you fucking imbecile(not my actual thoughts). the best i can fathom of your theory is that you're pretty much saying the entire human race suffers with some kind of tourettes syndrome.
its like think about it tho. if i had an opinion on something, but you're saying that i'm not thinking that, so that's not really my opinion. then that means my opinion on the matter is something else/not that. which means i still have an opinion. even if i don't know what my opinion is on something, i will still have an opinion about it. so if i have an opinion, then i have free will/thought.
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Nothing does matter in the grand scheme of things. I just think this is an interesting topic.
All your opinions, intentions and beliefs are caused by events you have no influence over.
So it goes. -
2018-01-26 at 4:30 AM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Nothing does matter in the grand scheme of things. I just think this is an interesting topic.
All your opinions, intentions and beliefs are caused by events you have no influence over.
So it goes.
So if you're "correct" , if that's even possible with your stance, and I am incorrect in believing that I have shaped my beliefs myself based on my understanding and interpretation of my surroundings, would it be fair to say that you got lucky, in the sense that you were predetermined to believe the correct belief regarding free will (or the lack thereof)?
It sounds to me like you're saying "I believe that nothing I believe is my belief." -
2018-01-26 at 4:38 AM UTClol everyone else above me is a reee reee
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2018-01-26 at 4:51 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ So if you're "correct" , if that's even possible with your stance, and I am incorrect in believing that I have shaped my beliefs myself based on my understanding and interpretation of my surroundings, would it be fair to say that you got lucky, in the sense that you were predetermined to believe the correct belief regarding free will (or the lack thereof)?
It sounds to me like you're saying "I believe that nothing I believe is my belief."
Do you think about what you're going to think about before you think it? Are you able to defy physics? If you answered no to these questions, it follows that all your thoughts and behaviors and intentions are caused by events you did not intend or influence.
You too can be so lucky mmQ. -
2018-01-26 at 5:36 AM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Do you think about what you're going to think about before you think it? Are you able to defy physics? If you answered no to these questions, it follows that all your thoughts and behaviors and intentions are caused by events you did not intend or influence.
You too can be so lucky mmQ.
I can't be anything I want to be according to you. :(
Also isn't that common sense? Of course my beliefs are caused from outside influence. The difference is I equate them to still being mine, personal to me, unique and attributed to the brain and person of who I am. -
2018-01-26 at 5:56 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 5:58 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 5:59 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 6:06 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 6:28 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 10:47 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 10:51 AM UTC
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2018-01-26 at 12:07 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ I can't be anything I want to be according to you. :(
Also isn't that common sense? Of course my beliefs are caused from outside influence. The difference is I equate them to still being mine, personal to me, unique and attributed to the brain and person of who I am.
Of course they are still yours, you just aren't the conscious source of them. You've made this day a special day, by just your being you. There's no person in the whole world like you; and I like you just the way you are. But you are no more responsible for who you are than you're responsible for your genes or upbringing or neural activity.
