User Controls
ASSANGE TO GET FUCKED LIVESTREAM
-
2019-04-16 at 8:39 PM UTC
Originally posted by Eval/Apply Well to be honest I'm not all that concerned with the distinction between spies and whistleblower here. Disclosure to the public as opposed to a specific state seems like a distinction which makes the whistleblower more noble but the spy and the whistelblower alike work against american hegemony.
And do you believe enemy spies are working towards a nobler goal than the American hegemony? Do you support their goals, or do you believe we all have some responsibility to forward our own goals, whatever they are?Frankly I imagine spies have an easier time of it. Like sure, the MIC will go after them but how much effort is put into extraditing spies once they've left the region they were operating in and delivered their intel? Capturing Assange and putting his head on a pike has no military significance, it's about sending a message to other would be whistleblowers.
Lolno. You never hear about spies because nobody is supposed to be doing it, that's why spies are even a thing. Doing the illegal shit is their job description. If you want to retrieve a spy, you don't go through extradition, you send your own team to get them.
My point really is, if you think we have any sovereignty at all as a nation, any right to defend our military personnel, then we can and should treat whistleblowers who leak information that endangers them the same as we would spies, the difference is only whether or not the information was made public, it literally doesn't matter as far as what should be done about it. Whistleblowers should be responsible with the information they leak. If they feel no responsibility towards endangering them, I see no reason why the government and military should have any concern for their welfare.
If it's about sending a message, then that message is being sent to irresponsible whistleblowers: don't leak shit that could get our people killed. -
2019-04-16 at 9:31 PM UTC
Anyone watching Julian Assange: Risk on BBC4 -
2019-04-16 at 9:52 PM UTCnigger
-
2019-04-16 at 10:02 PM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator If it's about sending a message, then that message is being sent to irresponsible whistleblowers: don't leak shit that could get our people killed.
I'm quite aware of why the US is going after Assange in the way it is, I pointed this out myself. I'm saying I don't think it's right.My point really is, if you think we have any sovereignty at all as a nation, any right to defend our military personnel, then we can and should treat whistleblowers who leak information that endangers them the same as we would spies
I basically think we don't have a right to defend our military personnel by any other means than hasty withdrawal from the illegitimate conflict they're engaged in. It's like posing the question "how should a burglar defend himself against a resident with a gun?". The answer is "don't invade people's homes", even if you think homeowners don't have a right to shoot home invaders. It's not "well if you think he has any personal sovereignty then he has a right to self defense and should shoot the person whose home he's breaking into". -
2019-04-16 at 10:02 PM UTC
-
2019-04-16 at 10:02 PM UTCfuck, I'm on the lists already, this isn't helping
-
2019-04-16 at 10:24 PM UTC"Soldiers" today are basically nothing more than corporate international terrorists. They knew the risks when they signed up.
-
2019-04-17 at 2:58 AM UTC
-
2019-04-17 at 3:14 AM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator And do you believe enemy spies are working towards a nobler goal than the American hegemony? Do you support their goals, or do you believe we all have some responsibility to forward our own goals, whatever they are?
be reminded that it was actually the noble works of spies that prevented the nuclear holocost during the cold war era. -
2019-04-17 at 3:23 AM UTC
Originally posted by Eval/Apply I'm quite aware of why the US is going after Assange in the way it is, I pointed this out myself. I'm saying I don't think it's right.
I basically think we don't have a right to defend our military personnel by any other means than hasty withdrawal from the illegitimate conflict they're engaged in. It's like posing the question "how should a burglar defend himself against a resident with a gun?". The answer is "don't invade people's homes", even if you think homeowners don't have a right to shoot home invaders. It's not "well if you think he has any personal sovereignty then he has a right to self defense and should shoot the person whose home he's breaking into".
Then I suppose the question is, what makes our conflicts illegitimate? -
2019-04-17 at 3:54 AM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator Then I suppose the question is, what makes our conflicts illegitimate?
Because our reason for entry into the war was post 9/11 fear mongering, and even that flimsy excuse has long since expired. What do you see as the justification for continued US involvement in Afghanistan?The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-04-17 at 4:07 AM UTC
Originally posted by Eval/Apply Because our reason for entry into the war was post 9/11 fear mongering, and even that flimsy excuse has long since expired. What do you see as the justification for continued US involvement in Afghanistan?
The fact that pulling out will literally create another Iraq situation? I mean shit, I definitely believe Iraq and Afghanistan were Halliburton wars more than American ones but now that it's all fucked up, we should just leave? Damn dude I think it's America's responsibility to honour its commitments and clean up its mess. -
2019-04-17 at 4:30 AM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator The fact that pulling out will literally create another Iraq situation? I mean shit, I definitely believe Iraq and Afghanistan were Halliburton wars more than American ones but now that it's all fucked up, we should just leave? Damn dude I think it's America's responsibility to honour its commitments and clean up its mess.
america is part of the mess.
no, america is the mess. -
2019-04-17 at 4:32 AM UTCi mean when the soviets pulled out did the afghanis bitch and moaned about the destruction and suing for compensations and reparations ?
no.
they move on. -
2019-04-17 at 6:28 AM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator The fact that pulling out will literally create another Iraq situation? I mean shit, I definitely believe Iraq and Afghanistan were Halliburton wars more than American ones but now that it's all fucked up, we should just leave? Damn dude I think it's America's responsibility to honour its commitments and clean up its mess.
People have been saying this for literally over a decade. When is our continued killing of people in Afghanistan going to fulfill our "commitments and clean up [our] mess"? Killing people to prop up a government that allegedly can't sustain itself isn't winning us fans and it doesn't seem to be moving us towards any kind of conclusion. Leaving a sovereign nation to its own political processes, even if we have a long ass history of dominating those processes, is better than perpetual intervention.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-04-17 at 6:34 AM UTC
Originally posted by Common De-mominator The fact that pulling out will literally create another Iraq situation? I mean shit, I definitely believe Iraq and Afghanistan were Halliburton wars more than American ones but now that it's all fucked up, we should just leave? Damn dude I think it's America's responsibility to honour its commitments and clean up its mess.
it can't and it won't. the cycle will continue until the US stops fuelling instability in the middle east, which means no more allowing/enabling (primarily) the gulf states and israel to destabilise the entire region.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-04-17 at 6:37 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny People have been saying this for literally over a decade. When is our continued killing of people in Afghanistan going to fulfill our "commitments and clean up [our] mess"? Killing people to prop up a government that allegedly can't sustain itself isn't winning us fans and it doesn't seem to be moving us towards any kind of conclusion. Leaving a sovereign nation to its own political processes, even if we have a long ass history of dominating those processes, is better than perpetual intervention.
The US has actually been losing ground in Afghanistan and Iraq over the last few years. They know there's no chance of a military victory and they've thrown away the majority of any political capital they once had. That's why the Afghan 'government' is opening negotiations with the Taliban and the Iraqi counterpart is considering attempting to force the US military out over its actions against Iran. -
2019-04-17 at 10:42 AM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
-
2019-04-17 at 10:58 AM UTC
-
2019-04-17 at 12:35 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny People have been saying this for literally over a decade. When is our continued killing of people in Afghanistan going to fulfill our "commitments and clean up [our] mess"?
Lol wtf sort of response is this?
"Well it's taking TOOOOOO LOOOOOOONG"?
This is quite literally why America is hated throughout the world, not the mere fact that we are killing people. We take giant shits in the developing world and walk away when it's convenient. I agree we should stop taking giant shits in the developing world, but while there are presently steaming shits sitting there, I don't see how any sane person can justify walking away.Killing people to prop up a government that allegedly can't sustain itself isn't winning us fans and it doesn't seem to be moving us towards any kind of conclusion.
Well, you're wrong.
Leaving a sovereign nation to its own political processes, even if we have a long ass history of dominating those processes, is better than perpetual intervention.
That's real easy to say in the abstract while comfortably chugging manmilk smoothies in affluent San Fagcisco when you're not willing to entertain the idea of another regime coming in that starts burning people alive for believing the wrong thing about something that doesn't exist.
