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We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
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2018-03-02 at 7:26 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Exactly correct, which is why your argument is vacuous. You'll notice no one said "everything with something that sorta looks like a nervous system if you squint at it right has moral right", simply that the absence of one is a reasonable criterion for exclusion from moral considerability. Capacity to suffer or experience utility is the relevant metric, plants do not possess these qualities.
You should stop using the word moral until you know what it means. -
2018-03-02 at 7:26 PM UTC
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2018-03-02 at 7:29 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Also why don't you respond to the rest of that post?
Because you yourself admit that if I don't think about stuff then I won't understand it, and if I don't understand it your constructed morality doesn't apply to me.
Same way as your moral rules and continuously expanding list of moral obligations doesn't apply to a fox, or even to low IQ/uneducated humans. -
2018-03-02 at 7:32 PM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 Because you yourself admit that if I don't think about stuff then I won't understand it, and if I don't understand it your constructed morality doesn't apply to me.
Same way as your moral rules and continuously expanding list of moral obligations doesn't apply to a fox, or even to low IQ/uneducated humans.
That's, uhh, not how it works -
2018-03-02 at 7:37 PM UTC
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2018-03-03 at 12:56 AM UTC
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2018-03-03 at 1:05 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny That's, uhh, not how it works
You're the one who's adopted an "opt-out" moral frame.
Haven't you noticed that if you are stupid, mean and nasty enough the moral rules don't apply to you?
For instance if I cut an animals throat and let it bleed out, I'd be jailed for animal cruelty. Yet kosher/halal slaughter is legal. -
2018-03-03 at 1:42 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny I'm pretty sure in a 13 page thread that this has been addressed several times before now but the salient feature of non-human members of the animal kingdom that make them morally considerable is their capacity to suffer or <feel pleasure/experience eudaimonia/satisfy preferences>. A carrot has no nervous system, it can not feel pain, it has no notion of pleasure. Animals like cows are clearly capable experiencing pain, suffering, depression.
nobody knows that as a matter of fact for sure. microorganisms react to stimulis and how they perceive these stimulations has yet to be fully understood.
the ''no nervous system, no feeling'' argument can also be used for ''different nervous system, different feeling'' and as such, since a cow has a nervous system not 100% similar to ours ....
maybe it'll perceive and feel the simulation of cold sharp knife slitting its throat a slightly differently from us having out throat slit.
maybe its just feeling a little itch and annoyed and frustrated it can no longer moo when it wants to becos the gases are escaping thru the gaping wound in its throat, but farr from suffering.
theres a youtube video of a cow losing its entire face / half if its head for unknown reason .... it kept me pondering for a long time ... trying to empathize ... -
2018-03-03 at 1:45 AM UTC
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2018-03-03 at 1:49 AM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader theres a youtube video of a cow losing its entire face / half if its head for unknown reason …. it kept me pondering for a long time … trying to empathize …
It was hit by a train.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1315439502
Originally posted by infinityshock not anywhere that i know of
thats how you are SUPPOSED to drain its circulatory system
Maybe so but it's still a fairly shitty thing to do to a living animal. There's no reason not to reduce the suffering.
Although some of these middle eastern religions get off on inflicting suffering and humiliation. -
2018-03-03 at 2:01 AM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 It was hit by a train.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1315439502
Maybe so but it's still a fairly shitty thing to do to a living animal. There's no reason not to reduce the suffering.
Although some of these middle eastern religions get off on inflicting suffering and humiliation.
there is no pain in exsanguination -
2018-03-03 at 2:10 AM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 It was hit by a train.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1315439502
yea ... but i always doubt the authenticity of video titles.
but the thing is ... does it look like its suffering to you ??? becos it dont to me, like its dazed and maybe a little confused, but it really dont look like its in pain. or anything. -
2018-03-03 at 2:14 AM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 It was hit by a train.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fe8_1315439502
this is where the zombie apocalypse starts... -
2018-03-03 at 2:40 AM UTC
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2018-03-03 at 2:48 AM UTC
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2018-03-03 at 3:10 AM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader but the thing is … does it look like its suffering to you ??? becos it dont to me, like its dazed and maybe a little confused, but it really dont look like its in pain. or anything.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1396117152
This guy doesn't look to be in pain either. -
2018-03-03 at 9:41 AM UTC
Originally posted by Issue313 You're the one who's adopted an "opt-out" moral frame.
Haven't you noticed that if you are stupid, mean and nasty enough the moral rules don't apply to you?
Wong. There's a difference between capacity-tested and will-tested models of moral responsibility. Notably the latter, which you're representing as being mine, doesn't actually exist.For instance if I cut an animals throat and let it bleed out, I'd be jailed for animal cruelty. Yet kosher/halal slaughter is legal.
Read this again, and what I've posted in this thread, and tell me you actually think this represents a valid criticism of the position I've said so far. -
2018-03-03 at 11:55 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Wong. There's a difference between capacity-tested and will-tested models of moral responsibility. Notably the latter, which you're representing as being mind, doesn't actually exist.
Read this again, and what I've posted in this thread, and tell me you actually think this represents a valid criticism of the position I've said so far.
You are talking about ethics not morals you dumbass -
2018-03-03 at 12:15 PM UTCwhat about all the tiny insects that get embedded in fruit and veg?
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2018-03-03 at 1:11 PM UTCif you gotta problem with killing animals then don't bother killing them first.
.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
