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2024-10-20 at 3:43 PM UTC
Originally posted by the man who put it in my hood Which denomination, if any, is correct in your view?
Classic Reformed?
I think "divinty" is too complex for the finite human mind to fully grasp. I also think each if us is at our own unique stage of spiritual development. With that in mind, I believe that divinity can reveal, to each of us according to our needs and abilities, the aspects needed for that individual at that time.
In other words there are no right or wrong religions. They are all just men's ways of telling the masses what works for them. Or they are just power and money grabs like most major religions.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2024-10-20 at 3:51 PM UTC
Originally posted by Speedy Parker I think "divinty" is too complex for the finite human mind to fully grasp. I also think each if us is at our own unique stage of spiritual development. With that in mind, I believe that divinity can reveal, to each of us according to our needs and abilities, the aspects needed for that individual at that time.
In other words there are no right or wrong religions. They are all just men's ways of telling the masses what works for them. Or they are just power and money grabs like most major religions.
This is kinda what the Sikh's believe. That the idea of God is too powerful for a mortal brain to understand which I also agree with but I think there is some middle ground between that involving large amounts of LSD and or nutmeg
Like maybe you can't know but certain denominations are better at reaching the Godhead of the Universe through various means which is why Mormons can build spaceships and city sized tabernacles without drinking coffee. But most of them just print flyers and help the poor
If you knew you wuold tell people instead of being coy about it as truth is not esoteric but instead scientific , measurable, tangible and can be proven. Faith is that exactly but ultimate truths do exist
It's not a you have to accept it into yur heart. Also how do you know theres one God and how do you classify soul/spirit in any quantifiable way that isn't sourced from historical spirituality
hint you can't./ If you can't tell me why God does or doesn't exist than it's about as compelling as someone saying Astrology is bullshit "WELL BECAUSE IT IS OKAY , LOOK IT UP ITS BULLSHIT"
What if God is a fractal plural and pantheons and native americans are actually ruight. Also Sikhs.
nutmeg spirituality israel -
2024-10-20 at 3:52 PM UTC
Originally posted by the man who put it in my hood This is kinda what the Sikh's believe. That the idea of God is too powerful for a mortal brain to understand which I also agree with but I think there is some middle ground between that involving large amounts of LSD and or nutmeg
Like maybe you can't know but certain denominations are better at reaching the Godhead of the Universe through various means which is why Mormons can build spaceships and city sized tabernacles without drinking coffee. But most of them just print flyers and help the poor
nutmeg spirituality israel
Whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't sink anyone who's not trying to sink you pretty much sums up my take on the whole thing. -
2024-10-20 at 3:57 PM UTCI dunno man I think violent extremists are necessary to keep the DAOIST order of morality in balance and harmony with the universe
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2024-10-21 at 12:55 PM UTCThey offer mass every day, not just sunday folx
In general, when modern secular books reference canonical hours in the Middle Ages, these are the equivalent times:
Vigil (eighth hour of night: 2 a.m.)
Matins (a later portion of Vigil, from 3 a.m. to dawn)
Lauds (dawn; approximately 5 a.m., but varies seasonally)
Prime (early morning, the first hour of daylight, approximately 6 a.m.)
Terce (third hour, 9 a.m.)
Sext (sixth hour, noon)
Nones (ninth hour, 3 p.m.)
Vespers (sunset, approximately 6 p.m.)
Compline (end of the day before retiring, approximately 7 p.m.) -
2024-10-21 at 4:29 PM UTC
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2024-10-22 at 12:58 AM UTCThe situation surrounding Our Lady of the Runestone and the church named after this title is indeed intriguing. While the Kensington Runestone's connection to the Virgin Mary ("Ave Virgo Maria") is a historical curiosity, it has not been officially recognized by the Catholic Church as an approved Marian apparition or title. The church in Kensington, MN—Our Lady of the Runestone Catholic Church—seems to serve as a pastoral hub for the local Catholic community, with a priest celebrating Mass there, but this does not necessarily mean that the legend itself is formally venerated or accepted by the wider Church.
What seems to be happening here is that the local Catholic community, particularly in a rural area like Kensington, has built a church with a title inspired by the regional history (the Kensington Runestone). It is common in Catholic practice to name churches after various Marian titles or local devotions, even if those titles do not have universal Church recognition. This church, however, still functions fully within the structures of the Diocese of Saint Cloud, and the priests assigned there, such as Father Jose Chettoor, perform regular pastoral duties like any other parish.
The church likely serves a dual role: providing for the spiritual needs of local Catholics and preserving an element of local identity or tradition tied to the runestone. It could be that local devotees or community members find spiritual meaning in this regional legend, even if it is not part of the Church's official Marian theology. The fact that there is regular pastoral work and community worship there indicates a need for spiritual care in the area, but it does not necessarily imply that anyone is advocating for formal recognition of the runestone's story by the Vatican. Instead, the church name may reflect an integration of local culture and faith, which is not uncommon in Catholicism.
There are other cases where local Catholic communities have built churches or developed devotions based on regional legends, cultural traditions, or local Marian apparitions that are not officially recognized by the Vatican. These cases illustrate the Catholic Church's flexibility in allowing local expressions of faith, even when they are not formally sanctioned as universal devotions.
1. Our Lady of Good Help (Champion, Wisconsin)
The story of Our Lady of Good Help is tied to a Marian apparition that allegedly occurred in 1859 in Champion, Wisconsin. Adele Brise, a Belgian immigrant, claimed that the Virgin Mary appeared to her and instructed her to pray for the conversion of sinners. While this apparition remained a local devotion for many years, it was only in 2010 that the bishop of Green Bay approved the apparition, making it the first Marian apparition in the United States to be officially recognized by the Church. Prior to official recognition, however, people had been practicing devotion and attending Mass at the shrine based on the local legend.
2. Our Lady of Knock (Ireland)
The Knock Apparition occurred in 1879 in Knock, Ireland, where several villagers reported seeing the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, and St. John the Evangelist appear on the gable wall of a church. While this apparition is now widely recognized within the Church and a shrine was built in Knock, it initially grew as a local devotion before gaining broader recognition. The local bishop did not officially recognize the apparition until several investigations and significant devotion had developed.
3. Nuestra Señora de la Caridad del Cobre (Cuba)
The devotion to Our Lady of Charity of El Cobre (La Virgen de la Caridad del Cobre) in Cuba began with a local legend involving fishermen who found a statue of the Virgin Mary floating in the Bay of Nipe. This devotion grew among the Cuban people for centuries before the Vatican officially recognized it in the 20th century. The Church initially allowed the veneration without formally endorsing the legend until it became an established part of Cuban Catholic identity.
4. Our Lady of Walsingham (England)
Our Lady of Walsingham is a title based on an apparition that occurred in 1061 when Lady Richeldis de Faverches claimed that the Virgin Mary appeared to her and asked her to build a replica of the Holy House of Nazareth in Walsingham, England. Although the devotion became very popular during medieval times, it fell into decline after the Protestant Reformation. It wasn’t until the 20th century that the Catholic Church revived the devotion, and it remains a major pilgrimage site today. However, its early years were characterized by local and popular devotion before gaining formal recognition.
5. Nuestra Señora de Coromoto (Venezuela)
The story of Our Lady of Coromoto involves a reported Marian apparition to a native chief, Coromoto, in the 17th century. Although the apparition became widely venerated in Venezuela, it took many years before the Church officially recognized the apparition. The shrine and devotion continued to develop locally for centuries before gaining broader acceptance.
6. Our Lady of La Vang (Vietnam)
The La Vang apparition is based on a legend from 1798, when Catholics in Vietnam sought refuge in the jungle to escape persecution. They reported seeing the Virgin Mary, who comforted them and urged them to boil leaves from the surrounding trees for medicine. The devotion to Our Lady of La Vang grew locally, even without formal Church approval, and today it is a significant part of Vietnamese Catholic culture, though the apparition has never been officially recognized by the Vatican.
In all of these cases, we see a pattern: local devotion grows based on a legend, sometimes with no immediate Church recognition, but over time, the Church may acknowledge or even canonize the devotion based on the faithfulness of the local community and the broader impact of the legend. In some instances, the Church allows these devotions to exist without ever formally declaring the associated apparition or legend as "approved" but still providing pastoral care through priests, Masses, and sacraments.
The case of Our Lady of the Runestone fits within this tradition, where local cultural history—whether or not it is formally recognized by the Church—can inspire the naming of a church and ongoing Catholic practice. The Church respects local faith expressions while being cautious about officially endorsing or declaring the supernatural nature of such stories.
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2024-10-22 at 4:53 AM UTCVikings don't exist anymore.
the rage is gone -
2024-10-22 at 2:38 PM UTCwait so if this runestone is a fake than why do people want to build a church there called "Our Lady of the Runestone" seems kinda disingenuous
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2024-10-22 at 2:40 PM UTC
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2024-10-22 at 2:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by the man who put it in my hood wait so if this runestone is a fake than why do people want to build a church there called "Our Lady of the Runestone" seems kinda disingenuous
Maybe for the same types of crazy reasons people have made all the other wackadoodle religions throughout human history. -
2024-10-22 at 2:54 PM UTCI can verify that this Runestone church is indeed a legit Catholic church
https://thecentralminnesotacatholic.org/new-priest-assignments-announced/
The Most Reverend Patrick M. Neary, C.S.C., Bishop of the Diocese of Saint Cloud, after presentation by the Reverend Jilson Mathew Kakkattupillil, V.C., Provincial Superior, St. Joseph Province, Vincentian Congregation, makes the following appointments in the Diocese of Saint Cloud, effective June 28, 2023:
Reverend Jose Chettoor, V.C. from parochial administrator of the Church of the Holy Cross, Harding, and the Church of Saint John Nepomuk, Lastrup, to parochial administrator of the Church of Saint Olaf, Elbow Lake, the Church of Saint Charles, Herman, and the Church of Our Lady of the Runestone, Kensington; -
2024-10-23 at 5:56 PM UTCThis argument is retarded. They just used sub pixel font and a reading stone.Pretty sure it even mentions a reading stone in the Mormon texts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_stone
argument: The book of Mormon would never fit on those plates
Now watch as I fit the entire Book of Mormon into this post with a 19k character limit including all of the above text explaining this post
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亞伯拉罕之書作者：小約瑟夫‧史密斯第一章1在迦勒底人的土地上，在我祖先的住處，我，亞伯拉罕，看到我需要另一個住處；2我發現我有更大的幸福、平安與安息，便尋求祖先的祝福，以及我被任命執行同樣的事情的權利；我自己是一個追隨正義的人，也渴望成為一個擁有豐富知識的人，並且成為一個更偉大的正義追隨者，並擁有更多的知識，並成為多國之父，和平之君，並且渴望為了接受指示並遵守上帝的誡命，我成為了合法的繼承人，大祭司，擁有屬於祖先的權利。3這是祖輩給我的；它是從祖先那裡傳承下來的，從創世之初，是的，從一開始，或者在創世之前，一直到現在，甚至是長子的權利，或者第一個人，就是亞當，或第一個父親，經由祖先到我。4我按照神對祖先關於後裔的任命尋求聖職任命。5我的祖先們背離了他們的正義和主他們的神賜給他們的神聖誡命,轉而崇拜異教諸神,完全拒絕聽從我的聲音;6因為他們的心一心行惡，完全轉向以利基拿神、立拿神、瑪瑪克拉神、科拉什神和埃及王法老的神；7因此，他們把心轉向異教徒的祭品，把他們的孩子獻給這些無聲的偶像，不聽從我的聲音，反而企圖借埃爾肯拿祭司的手奪走我的生命。以利基拿的祭司也是法老的祭司。8此時,埃及王法老祭司的慣例是在迦勒底地所建的祭壇上獻祭,作為獻祭給這些外邦神祇的男人、女人和兒童。9事情是這樣的，祭司按照埃及人的習俗，向法老神和沙格里爾神獻祭。現在沙格里爾的神是太陽。10法老的祭司甚至在奧利舍姆平原頂端、名叫波提乏山的山旁的祭壇上獻上一個孩子的感謝祭。11現在,這位祭司曾同時在這個祭壇上獻上三名處女,她們是奧尼塔的女兒,是含的王室後裔之一。這些童女因她們的美德而被獻上；他們不會跪拜木神或石神，因此他們被殺在這個祭壇上，這是按照埃及人的方式進行的。12事情是這樣的，祭司們對我施暴，好讓他們也能殺死我，就像他們對待這座祭壇上的那些處女一樣；為了讓您了解這個祭壇，我將請您參考本記錄開頭的陳述。13它是按照迦勒底人的床架形狀製作的，立在以利基拿、立拿、瑪瑪克拉、科拉什等神面前，也有像埃及王法老的神一樣的神面前。14為了讓你們了解這些神祇，我在一開始就以圖形的形式告訴你們，這種圖形被迦勒底人稱為Rahleenos，意思是像形文字。15當他們向我舉手，要獻上我並奪走我的生命時，看啊，我向主我的神高聲呼喊，主垂聽，垂聽，他使我充滿異象全能者的降臨，祂臨在的天使站在我身邊，立刻解開了我的束縛；16他對我說：亞伯拉罕，亞伯拉罕，看啊，我的名字是耶和華，我聽見了你，下來是要拯救你，要把你從你父家和你所有的親族中帶出來，帶到一片你所不知道的陌生土地；17這是因為他們的心轉離我，去敬拜以利基拿的神、立拿的神、瑪瑪克拉的神、可拉施的神、埃及王法老的神；所以我我兒亞伯拉罕，我下來要拜訪他們，要消滅那個舉手攻擊你、要奪走你生命的人。18看啊，我將拉著我的手引導你，我將帶你，將我的名，即你父親的聖職加在你身上，我的力量將在你之上。19怎樣與挪亞同在，也與你同在。但透過你的事工，我的名字將永遠為世人所知，因為我是你的上帝。20看哪，波提乏山在迦勒底的吾珥地。耶和華拆毀了以利基拿的祭壇和當地眾神的祭壇，徹底毀滅了他們，並擊打了祭司，使他死了。迦勒底和法老的宮廷裡都舉行了極大的哀悼。法老意味著王室血統的國王。21這位埃及王是含的後裔，生來就有迦南人的血統。22所有埃及人都是從這個後裔中產生的，因此迦南人的血統得以保留在這片土地上。23埃及地首先由一個女人發現，她是含的女兒，也是埃及圖斯的女兒，埃及圖斯在迦勒底語中表示埃及，表示禁止的事物；24當女人發現那塊土地在水下時，她就把她的兒子安置在那裡。因此，從含中誕生了在這片土地上保留咒語的種族。25埃及的第一個政府是由含的女兒埃及圖斯的長子法老所建立的，它是按照含的家長制政府的方式建立的。26法老是個正義的人，他一生明智而公正地建立了他的王國，審判他的人民，熱切地尋求仿效第一代祖先、在第一個族長統治時期、甚至在統治時期所建立的秩序。27吶，法老屬於那個血統，因此他無法獲得聖職權，儘管法老們很樂意通過含從諾亞那裡獲得聖職權，因此我父親被他們的偶像崇拜帶走了；28但此後，我將努力描繪從我自己到創世之初的年表，因為這些記錄已到我手中，我至今仍保留著這些記錄。29現在，厄克拿的祭司被擊殺後，對我說的有關迦勒底地的事就應驗了，那地將會發生飢荒。30於是，迦勒底全地發生了飢荒，我父親因飢荒而受盡折磨，他悔改了對我所定下的惡行，要奪去我的性命。31但主我的神將祖先、族長關於聖職權的記錄保存在我手中；因此，關於創世之初的知識，以及關於行星和恆星的知識，正如祖先所知道的那樣，我一直保留到今天，我將盡力在這上面寫下其中一些內容。我的子孫後代。第2章1主耶和華使吾珥地的饑荒愈發嚴重，以致我的兄弟哈蘭死了。但我的父親他拉仍住在迦勒底人的吾珥之地。2事情是這樣的，我亞伯拉罕娶了撒萊為妻，我的兄弟拿鶴娶了哈蘭的女兒密迦為妻。3主對我說：亞伯拉罕，離開你的國家、你的親族、你的父家，到我要指示你的地方去。4因此，我離開迦勒底人的吾珥地，要往迦南地去。我帶著我兄弟的兒子羅得和他的妻子，以及我的妻子撒萊。我的父親也跟著我，到了我們稱為哈蘭的地方。5飢荒就平息了。我父親在哈蘭逗留住在那裡，因為哈蘭有許多羊群。我父親又轉向偶像崇拜，因此他繼續留在哈蘭。6但是我，亞伯拉罕，和我兄弟的兒子羅得，向主祈禱，主向我顯現，對我說：起來，帶著羅得一起；因為我定意要帶你離開哈蘭，並讓你在一個陌生的土地上成為我名下的僕人，當你的後裔聽從我的聲音時，我將把這片土地賜給你的後裔作為永遠的產業。7因為我是耶和華你的神；我住在天堂；大地是我的腳凳；我把手伸向大海，大海聽從我的聲音；我使風與火為我的戰車；我對山說？8我的名是耶和華，我從起初就知道結局；因此我的手將在你身上。9我必使你成為一個偉大的國家，我必大大祝福你，使你的名在萬國中偉大，你必成為你之後的後裔的祝福，他們將在他們手中擔負起這項事工並為萬國擔任聖職；10我要因你的名祝福他們；因為凡接受這福音的人都將被稱為你的名字，並被視為你的後裔，並將起來祝福你，如同他們的父親一樣。11我要祝福那些為你祝福的人，咒罵那些咒罵你的人。在你（即你的聖職）和你的後裔（即你的聖職）中，因為我向你應許，這項權利將在你和你之後的後裔中繼續存在（也就是說，字面上的種子，或身體的種子），地球上的所有家庭都將受到祝福，甚至得到福音的祝福，這是救贖的祝福，甚至是永生的祝福。12現在，主不再對我說話，也不再看我之後，我在心裡說：你的僕人懇切地尋求你；現在我找到你了；13你派了你的天使來救我脫離厄克拿眾神,我會很好地聽從你的聲音,因此讓你的僕人起來,平平安安地離開。14於是我，亞伯拉罕，按照主對我所說的離開了，羅得也與我同行；我亞伯拉罕離開哈蘭的時候已經六十零兩歲了。15我帶著撒萊（我在迦勒底吾珥時娶的為妻）和我兄弟的兒子羅得，以及我們所收集的所有財物，以及我們在哈蘭贏得的靈魂，來到了去往迦在南地的路上，我們一路上都住在帳篷裡。16因此，當我們從哈蘭出發，經耶順路來到迦南地時，永恆就是我們的遮蓋、我們的磐石和我們的拯救。17現在我，亞伯拉罕，在耶順地築了一座壇，向耶和華獻祭，祈求飢荒離開我父親的家，免得他們滅亡。18然後我們從傑順穿過那地來到瑟根地方。它位於摩利平原，我們已經進入了迦南人之地的邊界，我在摩利平原獻祭，虔誠地呼求耶和華，因為我們已經進入了那地。19主向我顯現，回應我的祈禱，並對我說：我要把這片土地賜給你的後裔。20我，亞伯拉罕，從我為主建造的祭壇所在的地方起身，從那裡搬到伯特利東邊的一座山，在那裡搭起我的帳篷；伯特利在西邊，海在東邊；我在那裡又為耶和華築了一座壇，並再次求告耶和華的名。21我，亞伯拉罕，繼續往南走。那地的饑荒不斷。我，亞伯拉罕，決定前往埃及，在那裡寄居，因為飢荒變得非常嚴重。22事情是這樣的，當我快要進入埃及時，主對我說：看啊，你的妻子撒萊是一位非常美麗的女人；23因此，事情將是這樣，當埃及人看見她時，他們會說？他們會殺了你，但他們會救她一命；因此請注意，你們應該這樣做：24願她對埃及人說，她是你的妹妹，你的靈魂就必存活。25事情是這樣的，我亞伯拉罕將主對我所說的一切都告訴了我的妻子撒萊？將因你而活。第三章1我，亞伯拉罕，在迦勒底的吾珥擁有主我的神賜給我的烏陵和土明；2我看到星星非常巨大，其中一顆距離神的寶座最近；有許多偉人靠近它。3主對我說：這些是統治者；這位偉大者的名字是科羅布，因為它離我很近，因為我是主你的上帝：我已派他來統治所有屬於與你所站的秩序相同的秩序的人。4主借烏陵和土明對我說，科羅布按照主的方式，按照其運作的時間和季節；依照主的計算方式，一轉就是一天，根據你所站的時間指定的時間，這是一千年。這是主的時間的計算，根據科羅布的計算。5主對我說：那顆較小的光的行星，比掌管白天甚至黑夜的行星還要小，但在計算時卻高於或大於你所站立的行星，因為它按順序移動更慢；這是合理的，因為它位於你所站立的地球之上，因此它的時間的計算與其說是它的天數、月數和年數。6主對我說：亞伯拉罕，現在這兩個事實存在，你親眼所見；它被給予你知道計算的時間和設定的時間，是的，你所站立的地球的設定時間，以及被設定統治白天的更大光的設定時間，以及設定的時間統治夜晚的較小的光線。7現在，就其計算而言，較小光的設定時間比你所站立的地球時間的計算要長。8只要存在這兩個事實，就會有另一個事實在它們之上，那就是，將會有另一個行星，其計算的時間會更長；9因此，一個星球的時間將在另一個星球之上計算，直到你接近科羅布，科羅布是按照主時間的計算而定的；科洛布被置於上帝的寶座附近，統治所有與你所站的行星屬於同一秩序的行星。10你已獲賜知道所有被設定發光的星星的設定時間，直到你來到神的寶座前。11因此，我，亞伯拉罕，與主面對面交談，就像一個人與另一個人交談一樣；他向我講述了他親手所造的作品。12他對我說：我的兒子，我的兒子（他伸出了手），看哪，我要把這一切告訴你。他把手放在我的眼睛上，我看到了他親手所造的許多東西。它們在我眼前繁殖，我看不到它的盡頭。13他對我說：這是示尼哈，就是太陽。他對我說：Kokob，這是星星。他對我說：Olea，即月亮。他對我說：Kokaubeam，這意味著星星，或天空中所有偉大的光芒。14就在晚上，主對我說了這些話：我要使你和你的後裔繁增，像這些人一樣；如果你能數出沙子的數量，你也能數出你種子的數量。15主對我說：亞伯拉罕，在你進入埃及之前，我將這些事告訴你，好讓你宣講這一切話。16若有兩物存在，且其中一物在另一物之上，則必有更大的物在其之上；因此，科洛布是你見過的所有科考比姆中最偉大的，因為它離我最近。17現在，如果有兩件事物，一物在另一物之上，而月亮在地球之上，那麼它的上方可能存在一顆行星或一顆恆星；耶和華你的神除了他所願意做的事以外，不會做任何事。18然而，他造了更大的星；同樣，如果有兩個靈魂，其中一個比另一個更聰明，那麼這兩個靈魂，儘管一個比另一個更聰明，卻沒有開始；它們存在於之前，它們將沒有終結，它們將存在於之後，因為它們是gnolaum，或永恆的。19主對我說：這兩個事實確實存在，即有兩個靈，一個比另一個更聰明；將會有另一個比他們更聰明的人；我是主你的神，我比他們都聰明。20耶和華你的神差遣使者來救你脫離以利基拿祭司的手。21我住在他們中間；因此，我現在來到你這裡，向你宣告我雙手所創造的作品，其中我的智慧超越了一切，因為我以一切智慧和審慎統治著天上和地下，你從一開始就親眼所見的所有智慧；我從一開始就來到了你所見過的所有智慧之中。22現在主向我，亞伯拉罕展示了在世界出現之前就組織起來的智慧；在所有這些人中，有許多高貴而偉大的人。23神看見這些靈魂是善良的，祂就站在他們中間，說：我要立他們為我的統治者；因為他站在那些靈體之中，他看見他們都是良善的。他對我說：亞伯拉罕，你是他們中的一員；你在出生前就被選中了。24他們中間站著一位像神一樣的人，他對那些與他在一起的人說：我們要下去，因為那裡有空間，我們要取這些材料，我們要造一個地球，在上面放置這些材料。25我們將以此證明他們，看看他們是否願意做主他們的神命令他們的一切事情；26那些保留其第一地位的人將被添加；不守住本位的人，不能與守住本位的人在同一國裡享有榮耀。那些保持第二地位的人將永遠獲得榮耀。27主說：我要差遣誰呢？有一個人像人子一樣回答：我在這裡，請差遣我。另一個回答說：我在這裡，請差遣我。主說：我要派第一個。28第二個就生氣了，不守他原來的地位。那天，許多人跟隨他。第4章1然後主說：我們下去吧。他們一開始就下降了，他們，也就是眾神，組織並形成了天地。2大地形成後，是空虛荒涼的，因為他們除了大地以外，沒有創造任何東西；黑暗籠罩著深淵的表面，眾神的靈魂則在水面上沉思。3他們（神）說：要有光；要有光；就有光了。4他們（眾神）理解光，因為它是明亮的；他們將光明與黑暗分開，或稱使光明與黑暗分開。5眾神稱光為晝，稱黑暗為夜。事情是這樣的，從晚上到早晨，他們稱之為夜晚。從早晨到晚上，他們稱晝。這是他們所謂的白天和黑夜的第一個或開始。6諸神也說：諸水之間要有一片穹蒼，它將水與水分開。7諸神排列了蒼穹，將蒼穹以下的水域與蒼穹之上的水域分開；事情就是這樣，正如他們所吩咐的。8眾神稱這片天空為天堂。事情是這樣的，從晚上到早晨，他們稱之為夜晚。事情是這樣的，從早上到晚上，他們稱為白天；這是他們第二次稱為黑夜和白天。9眾神命令說：天下的水要聚在一處，大地要乾涸；他們就這樣吩咐了。10諸神宣布旱地為地球；眾水匯聚，他們稱之為「大水」；諸神看到他們被服從了。11諸神說：讓我們準備好大地以長出青草；產生種子的草本植物；結出果子的果樹，各從其類，其種子本身在地上結出自己的形狀。事情就是這樣，甚至按照他們的命令。12眾神組織大地從自己的種子中長出青草，讓草本植物從自己的種子中長出青草，各從其類結出種子；大地從自己的種子長出樹木，結出果實，而樹木的種子只能結出同樣的果實，各從其類；諸神看到他們被服從了。13事情是這樣的，他們數算日子；從晚上到早晨，他們稱夜為夜。事情是這樣的，從早晨到晚上，他們稱晝。這已經是第三次了。14眾神在天空中組織了光體，用它們來劃分白天和黑夜；並把它們組織成記號、季節、日子和年份；15並組織它們成為天空中的光體，照亮大地；事情就是這樣。16諸神組織了兩顆偉大的光，較大的光統治白天，較小的光統治夜晚；他們也用微弱的光設定了星星；17諸神將它們安置在天空中，將光明照亮大地，統治白天和黑夜，並將光明與黑暗分開。18眾神注視著他們所命令的事情，直到他們服從為止。19事情是這樣的，從晚上到早晨，都是夜晚；事情是這樣的，從早上到晚上都是白天。這已經是第四次了。20諸神說：讓我們準備好水，以繁衍有生命的活動生物；和鳥兒，它們可以在大地之上飛翔，進入廣闊的天空。21諸神預備了水域，好讓它們能孕育出巨大的鯨魚和各種活動的生物，這些生物各從其類；和各有翅膀的飛鳥，各從其類。眾神看到他們會被服從，他們的計劃是好的。22眾神說：我們將祝福他們，使他們生養眾多，充滿海洋或大水中的水；使飛鳥在地上繁殖。23事情是這樣的，從晚上到早晨，他們稱之為夜晚；事情是這樣的，從早上到晚上，他們稱之為白天。這已經是第五次了。24眾神預備大地，使生物各從其類、牲畜、爬蟲類以及地上的野獸，各從其類；正如他們所說，事情確實如此。25眾神組織大地，生出野獸，各從其類，牲畜，各從其類，以及一切爬行在地上的生物，各從其類；眾神看到他們會服從。26眾神彼此商議說：讓我們下去，按照我們的形象、按照我們的樣式造人；我們要賜給他們統治權，管理海裡的魚、空中的鳥、牲畜、全地，以及地上爬行的一切昆蟲。27於是眾神降臨，按照自己的形象組織人類，按照眾神的形象來塑造人類，男性和女性來塑造他們。28眾神說：我們會祝福他們。眾神說：我們將使他們生養眾多，遍滿大地，征服大地，並統治海裡的魚、空中的鳥和一切活動的生物。29諸神說：看啊，我們將賜給他們所有將出現在大地表面的帶有種子的草本植物，以及所有將在其上結果子的樹木；是的，我們會給他們結出種子的樹的果實；這是他們的肉。30地上的每一種走獸、空中的每一種飛鳥、以及地上爬行的每一種生物，看啊，我們將賜予它們生命，我們還將賜予它們各種綠色蔬菜作為食物，這些事情應如此組織。31諸神說：我們將按照我們所說的一切去做，並組織它們；看啊，他們會非常服從。事情是這樣的，從晚上到早晨，他們稱之為夜晚。事情是這樣的，從早上到晚上，他們稱之為白天。他們數了第六次。第5章1這樣，我們就會完成諸天、大地和其中的萬象。2諸神彼此說：第七次我們將結束我們所同意的工作；我們將在第七次休息時停止我們所建議的所有工作。3諸神決定第七次，因為到第七次時，他們將停止他們（諸神）彼此商議而形成的一切工作；並將其分別為聖。當他們相互商議形成天地時，他們的決定就是如此。4眾神降臨，創造了諸天和大地的世代，他們是在眾神創造大地和諸天的那一天形成的，5正如他們所說的，關於田野裡的每一種植物，在還沒有長成之前，以及田野中的每一種蔬菜，在還沒有生長之前；因為當眾神計劃這樣做時，他們並沒有讓雨落在地上，也沒有創造一個人來耕地。6霧氣從地上騰騰，滋潤全地。7諸神用地上的塵土造了人，並取了他的靈（即人的靈），並將其放入他體內；把生命的氣息吹進他的鼻孔，人就成了活生生的靈魂。8諸神在東方的伊甸園種植了一座花園，並把人安置在那裡，並將其靈魂放入他們所創造的身體中。9眾神使各樣的樹從地裡長出來，可以悅人的眼目，也可以作食物。園子中央還有生命樹和善惡知識樹。10有一條河從伊甸園流出來，滋潤那園子，從那裡分成四道。11諸神將這個人安置在伊甸園中，讓他修理和看守。12眾神命令那人說：園中各樹上的果子，你可以隨意吃，13只是分別善惡樹上的果子，你不可吃；因為你吃的時候必定死。現在我，亞伯拉罕，看到那是在主的時代之後，也就是在科羅布的時代之後。因為到目前為止，眾神還沒有給亞當指定他的算計。14眾神說：讓我們為這個人造一個幫助者，因為這個人獨自一人不好，所以我們將為他創造一個幫助者。15眾神讓亞當陷入沉睡；他睡著了，他們取下了他的一根肋骨，並用肉封住了它。16諸神用從男人身上取下的肋骨創造了一個女人，並將她帶到男人面前。17亞當說：這是我骨中的骨，肉中的肉；現在她將被稱為女人，因為她是從男人身上取出的。18因此，人要離開父母，與妻子聯合，他們將成為一體。19當時夫妻倆赤身露體，並不羞恥。20諸神用土創造了田野的各種走獸和空中的各種飛鳥，把它們帶到亞當面前，看他怎麼稱呼它們；亞當如何稱呼每一種生物，這就是它們的名字。21亞當就給一切牲畜和空中飛鳥、野地走獸都起了名。對亞當來說，有人為他找到了一個幫助者。
^they just did something like that on the golden plates -
2024-10-24 at 4:47 AM UTCwhy did you turn on the church, Scron
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2024-10-24 at 4:49 AM UTCI mean against it. Why did you leave the Mormon Church
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2024-10-24 at 1:30 PM UTC
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2024-10-24 at 4:38 PM UTChow to learn latin
https://foundinantiquity.com/2023/03/11/latin-autodidacts-youre-working-way-too-hard-how-to-learn-latin-by-yourself-in-2023/
Originally posted by Far McFar why did you turn on the church, Scron
Originally posted by Far McFar I mean against it. Why did you leave the Mormon Church
I have never been baptized in any church. My mom grew up baptist so my parents never believed it was okay to baptize a child and that they would have to make that choice for themselves and accept God into their heart.
I think my grandpa converted to mormonism though, he is friends with a mormon bishop. I think he keeps it secret from my entire family because everyone in my family would think he's a skitzo if he admitted it but I would support him because I actually understand and respect mormon theology unlike most of secular society -
2024-10-24 at 9:34 PM UTCI thought you said you were a Mormon. maybe it was someone else.
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2024-10-25 at 2:18 AM UTCCatholics Against Militarism is a lay Catholic movement that aims to expel militarism from the American Catholic Church by 1) registering dissent at the parish level, 2) raising awareness of the dangers of militarism through dialogue with fellow believers, and 3) spurring deeper, more honest reflection on the role of violence in our world.
"To reach peace, teach peace." Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for the celebration of the Day of Peace, 1 January 1979
https://catholicsagainstmilitarism.com/manifesto/
The military is the most respected institution in America. Americans associate military service with noble qualities and ideals, such as courage, strength, sacrifice, honor, loyalty, and heroism. Americans honor the U.S. military with special parades, ceremonies, monuments, and national holidays. We applaud American military exploits on television and in our films. Americans often go out of their way to thank soldiers and veterans for their service and for keeping us safe and free. On the one hand, there is a belief in the right to self-defense or a belief that war is sometimes necessary as a last resort; on the other hand, there is the unchecked glorification of all things military.
So, what’s wrong with militarism?
1. Militarism discourages serious reflection on the moral gravity of war.
A militaristic culture derives its power from a few basic assumptions:
The military is a force for good;
The military is only used in defense;
Therefore military service is an honorable profession;
Therefore supporting the troops is a patriotic duty.
We believe these are faulty assumptions.
When we thank veterans for keeping us free and safe, we reassure them that particular, current wars are good, and necessary to keep us free and safe. When we congratulate teenagers for joining the military, we discourage them from considering the spiritual and psychological consequences of violence, enmity, destruction and the taking of human life. When we champion the United States as “the greatest country on Earth,” we overlook the dark side of American history: American exceptionalism provides the rich soil in which militarism takes root.
Militarism creates a convenient blind spot for the terrible costs of war. At its most bold, it dares and encourages young people to sacrifice their lives, and possibly their souls, at the unholy altar of the State.
2. Militarism is a spiritual disease akin to the worshiping of idols.
The Ten Commandments reads Thou Shall Not Kill; Jesus Christ was the Prince of Peace; and Catholic tradition condemns war in the strongest terms. Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, and Christian Nationalism have no basis in the Catholic understanding of the world. As explained by Cardinal Walter Kasper, an overly strong identification of the Gospel with a particular culture or nation is an “ecclesiological heresy.” Killing does not become okay simply because the killer was wearing the stars and stripes. The Bible makes it very clear that God judges people according to His laws, not Man’s laws.
“Obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:29
“No one man can serve two masters.” Matthew 6:24
“Thou Shalt Have No God Before Me.” Exodus 20:3
Many Catholic leaders condone the glorification of the military and the aggressive use of military force, either through what they say and do, or through what they fail to say and do. Applauding veterans at Mass, draping the crucifix in the American flag, inviting veterans and recruiters to speak to youth groups, singing the National Anthem on the Fourth of July, praying for the safety of soldiers while ignoring the civilians who die as a result of their actions—all these things give tacit approval to the slaughtering of one group of people by another group of people at the command of the State. Something is wrong when we worship the Prince of Peace one minute and honor the military the next. Something is wrong when we equate the “sacrifice” of soldiers (whose power rests in their ability to use violence to inflict suffering on others), with the sacrifice of Christ (whose power rests in his willingness to renounce violence, take suffering upon himself, and love others, even his enemies, at any cost).
3. Militarism is sentimentalism.
Sentimentalism (n): the temptation to place affection (sentiment) above reason and objective truth.
Although Catholicism does not mandate complete pacifism, it places a heavy burden on any person wishing to engage in armed conflict. Ideally, such a person would undergo an intense period of spiritual and intellectual discernment before concluding that the end justifies the means. As far as we know, Catholic Churches, Catholic high schools and colleges, and the Catholic Chaplaincy offer no such pre-enlistment counseling services. A person today could receive 12 years of Catholic education without ever learning the first thing about Just War theory, let alone the spirituality of nonviolence. Few American Catholics have a solid formation in their faith, even fewer have any depth of understanding of the complex nexus of business, history, foreign policy, and geopolitical affairs.
Widespread ignorance, lack of rigorous spiritual formation, and a consciousness formed largely by State propaganda provides rich soil for militarism to grow, especially in our churches, by exploiting and perverting the Christian ideal of self-sacrifice. A militaristic culture short-circuits processes of intellectual and spiritual discernment guided by prudence. Once reason is clouded by sentimentality, brotherly love for all, to which we are called, is easily replaced with tribalism. The natural love one feels for one’s home and one’s countrymen can be turned into hubris. The natural desire to protect and defend what one loves is suddenly being used to justify aggression. A desire for revenge turns into bloodlust. Lack of information, the dissemination of misinformation and propaganda, and the use of “PsyOps” can even lead Americans to view entire countries or peoples as evildoers and the military as nothing but a benevolent Peace Corps — a benevolent Peace Corps with bombs.
When a militaristic mindset has firmly taken root, people can actually begin to love war. It’s exciting. It’s dramatic. It gives them a common purpose. Suicide rates historically go down during wartime.
Love of war should stop at church doors. Let love be our bind.
4. Militarism is lucrative business.
Military. Industrial. Complex. War is a staple of the American economy, a major jobs provider, and one of America’s few remaining exports. It’s no wonder so many Americans support their military; so many of them benefit, financially, from its adventures. We must not ignore the economic realities that contribute to a culture of militarism and those that make militarism more amenable to the Church. (What financial benefits, for example, does the Catholic Church receive when a priest becomes a chaplain?)
We believe the Church should stand apart from a militaristic culture. If the Church can’t stand up against it, by preaching peace and discouraging young Catholics from participating, it should at least refuse to do its bidding.
We’re not asking Catholics to “oppose war.” We’re merely asking that American Catholic Churches remain neutral spaces where public cheerleading for the military be disallowed and discouraged. We’re not “judging” Americans who join the military or support the troops. We’re simply pointing out the assumptions on which the militaristic mentality is based, challenging those assumptions, and calling attention to the vast gulf between Church teachings about violence, vengeance, and killing and the militaristic culture in America. Because it’s not always about what we do or about what we say, but about what we fail to do, what we fail say. Those of us in the pews who feel uncomfortable with militaristic displays in church, but who fail to speak up, must also be held accountable. Silence is collaboration.
Hopefully, putting pressure on those in our local churches to stop allowing demonstrations of militarism will be impetus for the thoughtful deliberation and discussion that this subject deserves.
This is a prolife movement. We care about the bodily lives of American soldiers and as well as their spiritual lives, both during and after deployment. We care about the lives of foreigners, who live in lands where American military action is currently taking place. We care about the quality of life for those who are left behind after the American troops have left their lands and gone home, dealing with the environmental and emotional fallout that goes hand in and with living in a former war zone. We care about the truth. We care about the collective life and moral integrity of this nation, and the future of life on this planet. -
2024-10-25 at 2:41 AM UTC
Originally posted by the man who put it in my hood Catholics Against Militarism is a lay Catholic movement that aims to expel militarism from the American Catholic Church by 1) registering dissent at the parish level, 2) raising awareness of the dangers of militarism through dialogue with fellow believers, and 3) spurring deeper, more honest reflection on the role of violence in our world.
"To reach peace, teach peace." Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for the celebration of the Day of Peace, 1 January 1979
https://catholicsagainstmilitarism.com/manifesto/
The military is the most respected institution in America. Americans associate military service with noble qualities and ideals, such as courage, strength, sacrifice, honor, loyalty, and heroism. Americans honor the U.S. military with special parades, ceremonies, monuments, and national holidays. We applaud American military exploits on television and in our films. Americans often go out of their way to thank soldiers and veterans for their service and for keeping us safe and free. On the one hand, there is a belief in the right to self-defense or a belief that war is sometimes necessary as a last resort; on the other hand, there is the unchecked glorification of all things military.
So, what’s wrong with militarism?
1. Militarism discourages serious reflection on the moral gravity of war.
A militaristic culture derives its power from a few basic assumptions:
The military is a force for good;
The military is only used in defense;
Therefore military service is an honorable profession;
Therefore supporting the troops is a patriotic duty.
We believe these are faulty assumptions.
When we thank veterans for keeping us free and safe, we reassure them that particular, current wars are good, and necessary to keep us free and safe. When we congratulate teenagers for joining the military, we discourage them from considering the spiritual and psychological consequences of violence, enmity, destruction and the taking of human life. When we champion the United States as “the greatest country on Earth,” we overlook the dark side of American history: American exceptionalism provides the rich soil in which militarism takes root.
Militarism creates a convenient blind spot for the terrible costs of war. At its most bold, it dares and encourages young people to sacrifice their lives, and possibly their souls, at the unholy altar of the State.
2. Militarism is a spiritual disease akin to the worshiping of idols.
The Ten Commandments reads Thou Shall Not Kill; Jesus Christ was the Prince of Peace; and Catholic tradition condemns war in the strongest terms. Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism, and Christian Nationalism have no basis in the Catholic understanding of the world. As explained by Cardinal Walter Kasper, an overly strong identification of the Gospel with a particular culture or nation is an “ecclesiological heresy.” Killing does not become okay simply because the killer was wearing the stars and stripes. The Bible makes it very clear that God judges people according to His laws, not Man’s laws.
“Obey God rather than men.” Acts 5:29
“No one man can serve two masters.” Matthew 6:24
“Thou Shalt Have No God Before Me.” Exodus 20:3
Many Catholic leaders condone the glorification of the military and the aggressive use of military force, either through what they say and do, or through what they fail to say and do. Applauding veterans at Mass, draping the crucifix in the American flag, inviting veterans and recruiters to speak to youth groups, singing the National Anthem on the Fourth of July, praying for the safety of soldiers while ignoring the civilians who die as a result of their actions—all these things give tacit approval to the slaughtering of one group of people by another group of people at the command of the State. Something is wrong when we worship the Prince of Peace one minute and honor the military the next. Something is wrong when we equate the “sacrifice” of soldiers (whose power rests in their ability to use violence to inflict suffering on others), with the sacrifice of Christ (whose power rests in his willingness to renounce violence, take suffering upon himself, and love others, even his enemies, at any cost).
3. Militarism is sentimentalism.
Sentimentalism (n): the temptation to place affection (sentiment) above reason and objective truth.
Although Catholicism does not mandate complete pacifism, it places a heavy burden on any person wishing to engage in armed conflict. Ideally, such a person would undergo an intense period of spiritual and intellectual discernment before concluding that the end justifies the means. As far as we know, Catholic Churches, Catholic high schools and colleges, and the Catholic Chaplaincy offer no such pre-enlistment counseling services. A person today could receive 12 years of Catholic education without ever learning the first thing about Just War theory, let alone the spirituality of nonviolence. Few American Catholics have a solid formation in their faith, even fewer have any depth of understanding of the complex nexus of business, history, foreign policy, and geopolitical affairs.
Widespread ignorance, lack of rigorous spiritual formation, and a consciousness formed largely by State propaganda provides rich soil for militarism to grow, especially in our churches, by exploiting and perverting the Christian ideal of self-sacrifice. A militaristic culture short-circuits processes of intellectual and spiritual discernment guided by prudence. Once reason is clouded by sentimentality, brotherly love for all, to which we are called, is easily replaced with tribalism. The natural love one feels for one’s home and one’s countrymen can be turned into hubris. The natural desire to protect and defend what one loves is suddenly being used to justify aggression. A desire for revenge turns into bloodlust. Lack of information, the dissemination of misinformation and propaganda, and the use of “PsyOps” can even lead Americans to view entire countries or peoples as evildoers and the military as nothing but a benevolent Peace Corps — a benevolent Peace Corps with bombs.
When a militaristic mindset has firmly taken root, people can actually begin to love war. It’s exciting. It’s dramatic. It gives them a common purpose. Suicide rates historically go down during wartime.
Love of war should stop at church doors. Let love be our bind.
4. Militarism is lucrative business.
Military. Industrial. Complex. War is a staple of the American economy, a major jobs provider, and one of America’s few remaining exports. It’s no wonder so many Americans support their military; so many of them benefit, financially, from its adventures. We must not ignore the economic realities that contribute to a culture of militarism and those that make militarism more amenable to the Church. (What financial benefits, for example, does the Catholic Church receive when a priest becomes a chaplain?)
We believe the Church should stand apart from a militaristic culture. If the Church can’t stand up against it, by preaching peace and discouraging young Catholics from participating, it should at least refuse to do its bidding.
We’re not asking Catholics to “oppose war.” We’re merely asking that American Catholic Churches remain neutral spaces where public cheerleading for the military be disallowed and discouraged. We’re not “judging” Americans who join the military or support the troops. We’re simply pointing out the assumptions on which the militaristic mentality is based, challenging those assumptions, and calling attention to the vast gulf between Church teachings about violence, vengeance, and killing and the militaristic culture in America. Because it’s not always about what we do or about what we say, but about what we fail to do, what we fail say. Those of us in the pews who feel uncomfortable with militaristic displays in church, but who fail to speak up, must also be held accountable. Silence is collaboration.
Hopefully, putting pressure on those in our local churches to stop allowing demonstrations of militarism will be impetus for the thoughtful deliberation and discussion that this subject deserves.
This is a prolife movement. We care about the bodily lives of American soldiers and as well as their spiritual lives, both during and after deployment. We care about the lives of foreigners, who live in lands where American military action is currently taking place. We care about the quality of life for those who are left behind after the American troops have left their lands and gone home, dealing with the environmental and emotional fallout that goes hand in and with living in a former war zone. We care about the truth. We care about the collective life and moral integrity of this nation, and the future of life on this planet.
The alternative is being tossed in camps by goose stepping goons.
