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Why do you exist?
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2017-04-07 at 4:23 AM UTC
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2017-04-07 at 4:25 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ The tough thing about religious debates is that everyone has very ingrained beliefs and it's almost laughable to imagine you, or your "opponent" ever saying "wow, that's a good point, I'm no longer a ______."
It took me 28 years of life and a strange awakening to realize that my constant doubts in the existence of the Christian God were actually legitimate. Nobody could have ever just convinced me because I could always fall back on an 'I just know I feel it in my heart' response, which essentially is the be all end all Christian argument when it comes to actually demonstrating God's existence. You know you can't prove it, you know it can't be disproved, so "I JUST FEEL HIM" is the default logic behind said belief.
People want God to be real for a number of reasons. Especially if they were raised in a religious household. Guess what? Your parents lied to you. Guess what? You won't see your dead family members when you die. Guess what? There is no plan for no one. Guess what? You're not special, you're a fucking cosmic accident.
But, even so, who gives a shit? Whether by God or accident we're alive now. We give meaning to our existence, not some external force whatever that may. Cherish your loved ones while you can and do your best, you'll be fine. In the end we all transform back into the Universe from whence we came. I guess that's one thing the bible got right. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-07 at 4:26 AM UTC
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2017-04-07 at 4:27 AM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie People want God to be real for a number of reasons. Especially if they were raised in a religious household. Guess what? Your parents lied to you. Guess what? You won't see your dead family members when you die. Guess what? There is no plan for no one. Guess what? You're not special, you're a fucking cosmic accident.
But, even so, who gives a shit? Whether by God or accident we're alive now. We give meaning to our existence, not some external force whatever that may. Cherish your loved ones while you can and do your best, you'll be fine. In the end we all transform back into the Universe from whence we came. I guess that's one thing the bible got right. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
Then why are you a virtuous pedo? Why not just say 'fuck it' and do what you want? You're smart. You could easily figure out a way to avoid legal repercussions. -
2017-04-07 at 4:30 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo You're right. No one can prove God exists - in any capacity. But we can determine that is existence is the most probable option.
What was the turning point that made you lose your faith? Just curious.
No we cannot determine it's the most probable. Not at all. A creator? Sure. But that specific God? I don't know why it's any more relevant than the other thousands of Gods that are worshipped.
You'll find it funny but the literal turning point was around the initial time I joined Zoklet. Nobody on zoklet actually convinced me, it was just coincidental. I just really started to do some deep thinking about it, not that I hadn't already, but I mean DEEP and considering things and different aspects and asked myself honest questions like why do I seriously believe in this particular God and why do I hold it as absolute truth?
Honestly the concept of Hell and burning in eternity was one of the strongest holds behind my belief. It still is, like I still think about it as I type this very thing if I'm wrong I might just go to hell forever and it scares me, it's actually why I've never killed myself because I've always believed that I might go to hell. I was raised that way though, so from a little kid I was always taught to believe in heaven and hell. It's tough to throw it away when you're basically told 'if you stop believing this is real you are gonna go to hell forever." Know what I'm saying? It literally almost forces you to hold your belief and convince yourself of it's reality in lieu of the dire, dire consequences. -
2017-04-07 at 4:30 AM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie What is your standard of proof for "historical fact" an old book?
That's what you originally asked, and I answered. I'm a little lost as to how this turned into "You can't offer proof of God". I haven't offered any proof, I merely defined a standard of proof for historical facts. -
2017-04-07 at 4:30 AM UTC
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2017-04-07 at 4:32 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Honestly the concept of Hell and burning in eternity was one of the strongest holds behind my belief. It still is, like I still think about it as I type this very thing if I'm wrong I might just go to hell forever and it scares me, it's actually why I've never killed myself because I've always believed that I might go to hell. I was raised that way though, so from a little kid I was always taught to believe in heaven and hell. It's tough to throw it away when you're basically told 'if you stop believing this is real you are gonna go to hell forever." Know what I'm saying? It literally almost forces you to hold your belief and convince yourself of it's reality in lieu of the dire, dire consequences.
I can understand that. It really is too bad there are so many misconceptions about hell, and that it's used to scare people into being Christian. Pro tip tho: you won't burn forever in agony. Just once, then you'll be gone. -
2017-04-07 at 4:35 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo I can understand that. It really is too bad there are so many misconceptions about hell, and that it's used to scare people into being Christian. Pro tip tho: you won't burn forever in agony. Just once, then you'll be gone.
Other Christians would say otherwise, that I in fact WILL burn for eternity. Why are they wrong and you're right? I'm not trying to patronize you but it's very convenient that you have concluded hell isn't as bad as it's made out to be. -
2017-04-07 at 4:48 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Other Christians would say otherwise, that I in fact WILL burn for eternity. Why are they wrong and you're right? I'm not trying to patronize you but it's very convenient that you have concluded hell isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
Some churches have female pastors and embrace homosexuality as not a sin, so heresy in the church is possible, and arguably quite common.
The main points for suffering in hell not being eternal are as follows:
1. God is a God of love, and cares deeply for his creation - humans especially. It would be inconsistent for God to care so much about humans, and then subject them to eternal torment. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell in the first place, so why make it a place of never ending pain?
2. In the Bible, it says those who are sentenced to hell 'perish' and are 'destroyed forever'. This cancels out the idea of a conscious existence of eternal burning.
3. It is also mentioned that names of those sent to hell are crossed out of The Book of Life. Hint: it's called that for a reason, and if you ain't in it, well, you cease to be after judgement day.
4. In Matthew's words: “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” The ability of God to destroy every aspect of a person's being is clearly noted.
5. Finally, in Revelation, it talks about the righteous walking on the ashes of those who have been thrown into hell. You burn up, and then there is nothing left. -
2017-04-07 at 4:48 AM UTC*smokes weed before bed, thinks about life, reads buzzkill God stuff, mood changes *
I'm alive because sex feels better without a condom.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-07 at 4:52 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo Some churches have female pastors and embrace homosexuality as not a sin, so heresy in the church is possible, and arguably quite common.
The main points for suffering in hell not being eternal are as follows:
1. God is a God of love, and cares deeply for his creation - humans especially. It would be inconsistent for God to care so much about humans, and then subject them to eternal torment. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell in the first place, so why make it a place of never ending pain?
2. In the Bible, it says those who are sentenced to hell 'perish' and are 'destroyed forever'. This cancels out the idea of a conscious existence of eternal burning.
3. It is also mentioned that names of those sent to hell are crossed out of The Book of Life. Hint: it's called that for a reason, and if you ain't in it, well, you cease to be after judgement day.
4. In Matthew's words: “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” The ability of God to destroy every aspect of a person's being is clearly noted.
5. Finally, in Revelation, it talks about the righteous walking on the ashes of those who have been thrown into hell. You burn up, and then there is nothing left.
This honestly brings to mind the whole aspect of how it's your 'soul' that ends up going to heaven or hell anyway so how would a soul feel pain on it's nerve endings from being burnt because it's a soul and doesn't have nerve endings type shit.
I'm sorry there are just far, far, far, far too many inconsistencies and cringe logix within the Bible for me to be able to ever again take it seriously. -
2017-04-07 at 4:53 AM UTC"Souls have emotions and feelings and nerve endings."
- GodThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-07 at 4:57 AM UTC"I am the embodiment of all that is good. But if you displease me in any arbitrary way, i'll drown you, burn you or even turn you into a pillar of salt"
- GodThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-07 at 5 AM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ This honestly brings to mind the whole aspect of how it's your 'soul' that ends up going to heaven or hell anyway so how would a soul feel pain on it's nerve endings from being burnt because it's a soul and doesn't have nerve endings type shit.
I'm sorry there are just far, far, far, far too many inconsistencies and cringe logix within the Bible for me to be able to ever again take it seriously.
I don't know how souls work. Surely from an atheistic perspective you can acknowledge that IF there was a God, there would naturally be things we couldn't comprehend about him, his will, or his creation.
inb4 you can just say 'i dunno...therefore god"
Nope. Realizing that there are some things you do not or cannot know doesn't discount everything else. For example, not knowing about how souls work isn't really relevant to the question: Is the Christian God real? and therefore not a dealbreaker. -
2017-04-07 at 5:01 AM UTC
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2017-04-07 at 5:05 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo I don't know how souls work. Surely from an atheistic perspective you can acknowledge that IF there was a God, there would naturally be things we couldn't comprehend about him, his will, or his creation.
inb4 you can just say 'i dunno…therefore god"
Nope. Realizing that there are some things you do not or cannot know doesn't discount everything else. For example, not knowing about how souls work isn't really relevant to the question: Is the Christian God real? and therefore not a dealbreaker.
Listen, the theory you should go with is the one that requires the least assumptions. We know a brain needs nerves to feel shit. It then follows to say that when the nerves stop working or indeed the brain stops working(read death) you stop feeling things. This does not require the assumption that there is a magical essence that can still feel without the brain and is therefore the most likely to be true.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-04-07 at 5:05 AM UTC
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2017-04-07 at 5:11 AM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie Listen, the theory you should go with is the one that requires the least assumptions. We know a brain needs nerves to feel shit. It then follows to say that when the nerves stop working or indeed the brain stops working(read death) you stop feeling things. This does not require the assumption that there is a magical essence that can still feel without the brain and is therefore the most likely to be true.
Ok. Uh, I guess your soul can't physically feel things? So? We get new bodies in heaven. lol otherwise that'd suck for cripples. -
2017-04-07 at 5:11 AM UTC
