User Controls
Posts by Obbe
-
2018-02-17 at 6:38 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while aliveDoesn't matter how many times I read it, it will always ignore the problem of free will and change the topic to "freedom to exert your will".
-
2018-02-17 at 6:35 PM UTC in Is human behavior biological?
-
2018-02-17 at 6:31 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-17 at 5:14 PM UTC in Is human behavior biological?
Originally posted by Captain Falcon Sure. Everything can be viewed on different levels. Enjoying a tasty soda is still just a chemical interaction. But doesn't mean the tastiness of the soda doesn't exist or it is t meaningful.
Right. I don't think anyone was saying tastiness doesn't exist or isn't meaninfull just because it can be explained as chemical interactions. But you said it could "be something else as well". Did you just mean it can be viewed on different levels? How does viewing something differently make it something else? Do you think if I view myself as "god", that I am god? -
2018-02-17 at 4:55 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while aliveYour conception is stupid. It completely ignores the problem of free will and changes the topic from free will to freedom to exert your will.
-
2018-02-17 at 4:54 PM UTC in What's the best disney movie?So many classics, tough to decide. I liked fern gulley as a kid but I can't remember if That is actually Disney or not.
I thought Tron Legacy was pretty trippy. -
2018-02-17 at 4:43 PM UTC in Is human behavior biological?
-
2018-02-17 at 4:30 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Captain Falcon I'm not going through this whole argument again, nigger
That's the thing though - there is nothing wrong with my argument. It is logically sound. You might disagree with how I use the term "free will", as I disagree with how you use it, but that's about it. You already admitted
Originally posted by Captain Falcon The way you act is a result of your genetics responding to the environment.
Which is basically exactly what I'm saying. -
2018-02-17 at 2:46 AM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-16 at 11:36 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-16 at 11:01 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Lanny Who says they are the conscious source of their thoughts?
I believe most people feel that way. I used to feel that way. Most of the time when I'm not having a discussion about free will I live my life as if I am the conscious source of my thoughts and actions. I believe that's just the natural way human beings are.
Originally posted by Lanny A claim that one "could have acted differently in the past" could either mean having the compatibilist freedom to have done differently (being able to act according to one's will, has one's will been different) or simply an uncritical colloquial expression.
I suppose that's true. But when people express regret over actions that they intended, like losing a lot if money because they enjoy gambling, saying how they should have done things differently, obviously they are talking about libertarian free will.
I suppose an easier way to express what I'm saying is to eliminate "free will" all together to prevent confusing what I mean by the term with what others might mean by the term and just say that we are not the conscious source of our thoughts and actions and that we could not have acted differently in the past than we did.
Originally posted by Lanny There's a really interesting paper in 2005 that tried to find out what people do mean when they talk about free will using responses to some cases that don't implicate the linguistic issue here. The whole thing is interesting but the gist of it is on page 556 (6th page in the pdf):
https://philpapers.org/archive/NADSFF.pdf
And it suggests that people do actually accept the compatibilist notion of free will when examining these cases.
Thanks I will look at that. -
2018-02-16 at 10:08 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Lanny Why does the libertarian definition of primacy though? I'm not saying it doesn't, but why do you think counts as evidence that one definition for a term is legitimate while another is while another is stupid? What authority could preside over natural language to makes this determination?
I just think that's what people mean when they talk about free will. They talk about how they could have acted differently than they did in the past. They say they feel like they are the conscious source of their thoughts and actions. Obviously that feeling is an illusion. -
2018-02-16 at 8:59 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-16 at 7:22 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Zanick So let's get this straight: a few scientists conducted a single study which included a handful of participants, and you're ready to extrapolate these results to establish a universal principle that every being that will ever be can never act spontaneously?
The study I posted is evidence that we lack free will, but it isn't the sole reason I am saying we lack free will. We lack free will because our thoughts and behaviors are the result of a chain of cause and effect that we have no influence over. -
2018-02-16 at 7:18 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by mmQ I find it peculiar obbe is so adamant about being right on this when he admitted himself free will is incoherent and it's actually not possible to be objectively right in defining it.
What a quaint fella.
Free will is incoherent - that's why you shouldn't believe in it. Same reason you don't believe that your cat is an iguana that you gave birth to you and that he taught you English. -
2018-02-16 at 7:16 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Xlite If you look for evidence supporting your theory then that is what you shall find.
Prove to me that what you say is true and you will soon learn the difficulty of actually proving things.
You get your information from the internet and life experience, which is what we do as well. What makes your source more reliable than ours? Did you participate yourself in whatever experiments and debates were made? At best, you only "know" 5% of what you actually know because you can only prove 5% of what you know. Every other piece of accepted information you have accumulated at this point comes from people who in effect persuaded you with language to believe in what they say, without you ever having any personal experience in the subject yourself.
Bring me your best evidence that disproves free will, and then give me your best evidence to support free will.
If you can't look at things from both sides evenly and unbiased then you have nothing to contribute with.
I've already given my best evidence that free will does not exist. I have not seen any evidence that free will does exist. I think I am looking at things pretty evenly and unbiased; it was only a few years ago that I was arguing with Lanny that free will exists. I have recently changed my opinion. Based on the best evidence available.
But even ignoring the best evidence we have available, free will still doesn't make sense. You are not authoring your thoughts before you think them. You are not picking and choosing your intentions and desires. All your thoughts and behaviors are the result of a chain of cause and effect that you have no influence over. We know this. Knowing this, how can you still believe in free will? -
2018-02-16 at 4:46 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-16 at 4:35 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while aliveSeriously how do you people still believe in free will?
-
2018-02-16 at 12:21 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
-
2018-02-15 at 11:40 PM UTC in Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
Originally posted by Vizier Who gives a shit if you have free will or not?
Well, take the people in the gore video. Or the guy who just shot up a high school.
If free will exists that means events like this will never be predictable or preventable. Basically anyone could just decide to start killing people for no reason.
But we already know the world isn't really like that. Every thought that goes through a persons mind and every action they perform is the result of a chain of cause and effect. If we were to collect and study enough of the data, eventually we could literally cure the world of "evil". We could prevent these things from happening. We could predict these events before they occured, and stop them from happening. Because a persons thoughts and behaviors are caused by things we can measure and study. Because free will is an illusion.
