Ayy lmao, a friend of mine broke both arms while mountain biking.

1. 2017-08-18 at 5:20 PM UTC

   #121
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole

   Originally posted by Open Your Mind Cog doesn't decide when to break. Breaks only when it has to, and it can't not break when it has to break.

   
   Functioning when it functions and breaking when it breaks is part of its nature as a cog.
2. 2017-08-18 at 5:30 PM UTC

   #122
   

   Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

   Originally posted by Captain Falcon Functioning when it functions and breaking when it breaks is part of its nature as a cog.

   
   I agree. I just wouldn't say the cog has the freedom to absolutely decide what and when and how it does anything.
3. 2017-08-18 at 5:36 PM UTC

   #123
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole

   Originally posted by Open Your Mind I agree. I just wouldn't say the cog has the freedom to absolutely decide what and when and how it does anything.

   
   If the cog was an agent of free will, it would be in accordance with its will to break or function, unless induced by another agent.
4. 2017-08-18 at 5:37 PM UTC

   #124
   

   Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

   Originally posted by Falco If the cog was an agent of free will, it would be in accordance with its will to break or function, unless induced by another agent.

   
   I wouldn't call that free will. Do you believe rocks and computers have free will too?
5. 2017-08-18 at 5:50 PM UTC

   #125
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole

   Originally posted by Open Your Mind I wouldn't call that free will. Do you believe rocks and computers have free will too?

   
   Is a rock or a computer an agent of will? No.
6. 2017-08-18 at 5:51 PM UTC

   #126
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole

   Originally posted by Captain Falcon What would be free in the libertarian, classical sense?
   
   Would it be free if you could will what you will, but could not will what you will what you will? Serious question.

7. 2017-08-18 at 5:55 PM UTC

   #127
   

   Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

   Originally posted by Falco Is a rock or a computer an agent of will? No.

   
   Will is not free will.
8. 2017-08-18 at 5:56 PM UTC

   #128
   

   Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

   Originally posted by Falco

   
   Free will would be being in absolute control of your will.
9. 2017-08-18 at 5:56 PM UTC

   #129
   

   Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]
   Is a human in absolute control of their will?
   
   No, he can do what he will, but he cannot will what he will.
10. 2017-08-18 at 6:10 PM UTC

    #130
    

    benny vader YELLOW GHOST

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind Cog doesn't decide when to break.

    
    didnt have to. i was replying to your statement that says :
    
    ''cogs doesnt have control''.
    
    irregardless of whether a cog have or have not control over its breakage .... it does have a control of the machine when it does break.
11. 2017-08-18 at 6:14 PM UTC

    #131
    

    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

    Originally posted by benny vader didnt have to. i was replying to your statement that says :
    
    ''cogs doesnt have control''.
    
    irregardless of whether a cog have or have not control over its breakage …. it does have a control of the machine when it does break.

    
    True, but not out of its own free will.
12. 2017-08-18 at 6:22 PM UTC

    #132
    

    benny vader YELLOW GHOST

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind True, but not out of its own free will.

    
    but thats not what i wanted to address.
    
    i just want to point out that your statement is phalse.
13. 2017-08-18 at 6:32 PM UTC

    #133
    

    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

    Originally posted by benny vader but thats not what i wanted to address.
    
    i just want to point out that your statement is phalse.

    
    Ok
14. 2017-08-18 at 8:23 PM UTC

    #134
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind Will is not free will.

    
    Yes, I said "will" because free or not, it is not relevant as an example.
    
    
    
    

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind Free will would be being in absolute control of your will.

    
    You are simply avoiding the question. What would having absolute control of your will entail?
15. 2017-08-18 at 8:23 PM UTC

    #135
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind Is a human in absolute control of their will?
    
    No, he can do what he will, but he cannot will what he will.

    
    If he can will what he wills, would he be in control of his will?
16. 2017-08-18 at 8:40 PM UTC

    #136
    

    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

    Originally posted by Falco If he can will what he wills, would he be in control of his will?

    
    I would say so. That would be free will. However, as you know that is impossible. And everyone feels like they have that freedom, but in reality they do not.
17. 2017-08-18 at 9:09 PM UTC

    #137
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole

    Originally posted by Open Your Mind I would say so. That would be free will. However, as you know that is impossible. And everyone feels like they have that freedom, but in reality they do not.

    
    It is not impossible. That's what we call 2nd order reasoning. The quote I gave about not willing what you will collapses down all higher order reasoning to talk about whatever the ultimate chain before "you" leads to that higher order reasoning. This is why I asked you if you felt the same way about not willing what you will, when you will what you will.
18. 2017-08-18 at 9:12 PM UTC

    #138
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    To put it simply, a compatibilist would also argue that most of your actions are NOT free will, if they are made out of first order reasoning rather than higher order reasoning. And unless you do employ 2nd or higher order reasoning, you are no different than a computer or a rock.
    
    Then the question is simply, why does the existence of an ultimate external cause, invalidate the freedom of all the subsequent internal processes?
    The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!

    • mmQ
19. 2017-08-18 at 9:20 PM UTC

    #139
    

    mmQ Lisa Turtle
    Obbe is Ayn Rand confirmmied
20. 2017-08-18 at 9:34 PM UTC

    #140
    

    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]

    Originally posted by Falco To put it simply, a compatibilist would also argue that most of your actions are NOT free will, if they are made out of first order reasoning rather than higher order reasoning. And unless you do employ 2nd or higher order reasoning, you are no different than a computer or a rock.
    
    Then the question is simply, why does the existence of an ultimate external cause, invalidate the freedom of all the subsequent internal processes?

    
    Because magic isn't real, cause and effect are. Your internal processes might be very complex but still follow the same rules as the rest of reality.
    
    Say you had a choice between red and blue, you pick blue, I ask you why, you say because you like blue it's what you desired, I ask you why do you like blue, you say I don't know why I just do. Well if you don't know why you like it how is this desire something that you freely willed? At what point did 2nd order reasoning occur?
    
    I mean this is how all our behavior works. If you think about any action, any desire, or any thought deep enough, it becomes clear that you don't really know why you do anything. If you don't know why you are doing something, how is it possibly something you are freely choosing?
    
    Give me an example of a person with free will.