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Ayy lmao, a friend of mine broke both arms while mountain biking.
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2017-08-18 at 5:20 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 5:55 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 5:56 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 5:56 PM UTCIs a human in absolute control of their will?
No, he can do what he will, but he cannot will what he will. -
2017-08-18 at 6:10 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 6:32 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 8:23 PM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Will is not free will.
Yes, I said "will" because free or not, it is not relevant as an example.
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Free will would be being in absolute control of your will.
You are simply avoiding the question. What would having absolute control of your will entail? -
2017-08-18 at 8:23 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 8:40 PM UTC
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2017-08-18 at 9:09 PM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind I would say so. That would be free will. However, as you know that is impossible. And everyone feels like they have that freedom, but in reality they do not.
It is not impossible. That's what we call 2nd order reasoning. The quote I gave about not willing what you will collapses down all higher order reasoning to talk about whatever the ultimate chain before "you" leads to that higher order reasoning. This is why I asked you if you felt the same way about not willing what you will, when you will what you will. -
2017-08-18 at 9:12 PM UTCTo put it simply, a compatibilist would also argue that most of your actions are NOT free will, if they are made out of first order reasoning rather than higher order reasoning. And unless you do employ 2nd or higher order reasoning, you are no different than a computer or a rock.
Then the question is simply, why does the existence of an ultimate external cause, invalidate the freedom of all the subsequent internal processes? -
2017-08-18 at 9:20 PM UTCObbe is Ayn Rand confirmmied
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2017-08-18 at 9:34 PM UTC
Originally posted by Falco To put it simply, a compatibilist would also argue that most of your actions are NOT free will, if they are made out of first order reasoning rather than higher order reasoning. And unless you do employ 2nd or higher order reasoning, you are no different than a computer or a rock.
Then the question is simply, why does the existence of an ultimate external cause, invalidate the freedom of all the subsequent internal processes?
Because magic isn't real, cause and effect are. Your internal processes might be very complex but still follow the same rules as the rest of reality.
Say you had a choice between red and blue, you pick blue, I ask you why, you say because you like blue it's what you desired, I ask you why do you like blue, you say I don't know why I just do. Well if you don't know why you like it how is this desire something that you freely willed? At what point did 2nd order reasoning occur?
I mean this is how all our behavior works. If you think about any action, any desire, or any thought deep enough, it becomes clear that you don't really know why you do anything. If you don't know why you are doing something, how is it possibly something you are freely choosing?
Give me an example of a person with free will.