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WWIII
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2017-08-11 at 1:20 AM UTCWhen I plan on bombing a country that could easily turn mine into glass, I announce it a couple weeks in advance. Makes sense.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2017-08-11 at 1:26 AM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2017-08-11 at 2 AM UTC
Originally posted by infinityshock the best stealth technology can't mask the workings of a bunker…between the power requirements, ventilation, resupply, various types of electromagnetic emissions, etc.
kinetic energy. simple physics. get a tungsten penetrator of x mass accelerated to y velocity and it can penetrate as deep as someone is willing to spend on metal and altitude.
there are two problems though:
1. NK has MASSIVE underground tunnels. Unless something's changed recently, western intelligence agencies have historically failed to gather any useful information on NK's military infrastructure. Even if they could detect underground facilities (I would argue that given the landmass it'd be very difficult to 'scan' for underground facilities; what you're talking about is more the ability to pinpoint the location of a bunker if you already know it's general location), without knowing which ones house high-value targets it'd be like playing whack-a-mole with the world's most expensive hammer that keeps breaking.
2. 'Bunker busters' or kinetic penetration bombs are not cheap. They require massive amounts of exotic metals (I don't know the stats for tungsten specifically, but many are almost completely imported from China who would likely cease exports if the bombs start falling) and take a long time to build - throwing them at everywhere that looks like a bunker would be an easy way to bankrupt the war machine. -
2017-08-11 at 2:10 AM UTC
Originally posted by HTS What if it's a diversion tactic for their actual deployment of a biological agent of some kind…~
I've actually thought about this before. NK has 50-80 diesel submarines that are totally unaccounted for - this whole nuclear ICBM program seems more like a security policy (ie. a deterrant) than an actual weapon. The US' missile and anti-missile technology is several generations ahead of NK, which is largely based on old Soviet hardware - Kim knows he can't win a nuclear exchange, but he must also realise that the US will likely be able to intercept or otherwise defeat the small number of relatively primitive missiles he could feasibly field in the next few years.
It would make sense that he's ordered submarines within range of the US mainland - TBMs from within a thousand kilometers or so should be able to hit their targets before the recipient is able to respond.
I don't think that there's any question of NK having or being able to manufacture organophosphate compounds. -
2017-08-11 at 3:34 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra I've actually thought about this before. NK has 50-80 diesel submarines that are totally unaccounted for - this whole nuclear ICBM program seems more like a security policy (ie. a deterrant) than an actual weapon. The US' missile and anti-missile technology is several generations ahead of NK, which is largely based on old Soviet hardware - Kim knows he can't win a nuclear exchange, but he must also realise that the US will likely be able to intercept or otherwise defeat the small number of relatively primitive missiles he could feasibly field in the next few years.
It would make sense that he's ordered submarines within range of the US mainland - TBMs from within a thousand kilometers or so should be able to hit their targets before the recipient is able to respond.
I don't think that there's any question of NK having or being able to manufacture organophosphate compounds.
bingo.
they have massive resources devoted to their mini- and midget-submarines and deploying them in the unconventional warfare role. I guarantee SWORD is going tits over teakettles trying to track down every last one of them. they (NK) spent fucktons of resources developing AIP for their subs and training the sailors and infiltrators that man them. i guarantee they (NK) has contingency planning for deploying their personnel to various US-allied targets for purposes ranging from sabotage...to kidnapping...to assassination...to info-collection. im not going to pretend i know what theyll target but i have no doubt theyd engage civilian shipping. those subs will get one shot then the US ASW capability will obliterate it within 24 hours, max.
if the US doesnt have significant resources devoted to hunting down those subs, whomever is in charge of tactical planning should lose their job.
if nuclear weapons are used this worlds entire geo-political structure will collapse. its too complicated to explain but the non-usage of nukes in an 'angry' role (not counting the first nuclear war) is a glue that holds together political negotiations and stability among every country on this planet. -
2017-08-11 at 3:41 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra there are two problems though:
1. NK has MASSIVE underground tunnels. Unless something's changed recently, western intelligence agencies have historically failed to gather any useful information on NK's military infrastructure. Even if they could detect underground facilities (I would argue that given the landmass it'd be very difficult to 'scan' for underground facilities; what you're talking about is more the ability to pinpoint the location of a bunker if you already know it's general location), without knowing which ones house high-value targets it'd be like playing whack-a-mole with the world's most expensive hammer that keeps breaking.
2. 'Bunker busters' or kinetic penetration bombs are not cheap. They require massive amounts of exotic metals (I don't know the stats for tungsten specifically, but many are almost completely imported from China who would likely cease exports if the bombs start falling) and take a long time to build - throwing them at everywhere that looks like a bunker would be an easy way to bankrupt the war machine.
regardless of the cost of tungsten...steel alloys would work as well, but would be physically and dimensionally larger to compensate for the lower density compared to tungsten. the construction of the penetrator would depend on if the designer was more interested in efficiency or cost-benefit ratio. keep in mind when you read that 'xxxxx' is 'almost completely imported from china' the reason is because china has virtually no laws protecting the environment or workers in mining operations, which is in contrast to virtually everywhere else in the world. this is why most natural resources that china has are purchased from them instead of being mined domestically. simple economics...not actual exclusive distribution. -
2017-08-11 at 3:45 AM UTCCalm down.
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2017-08-11 at 3:53 AM UTC
Originally posted by infinityshock simple economics…not actual exclusive distribution.
Yeah, probably depends on the material but I know you're right about rare earth magnets and a few others. Regardless if supply gets cut the US is not going to be able to set up domestic mining operations to fulfill the demand in time, and that's assuming they have significant deposits.
Originally posted by mashlehash Calm down.
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2017-08-11 at 3:57 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra Yeah, probably depends on the material but I know you're right about rare earth magnets and a few others. Regardless if supply gets cut the US is not going to be able to set up domestic mining operations to fulfill the demand in time, and that's assuming they have significant deposits.
in time, no. in quantity, yes. the US has plenty of deposits...the only problem is theyre expensive, dangerous, and heavily polluting...especially when considering none of those factors play into the equation when the chinese are selling everything so cheaply. they literally ran out of room to store all their aluminum ingots. -
2017-08-11 at 3:57 AM UTCDon't die from paranoia
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2017-08-11 at 3:59 AM UTCPARANOIA DEATH
OUR MISSILES ARE TIPPED WITH
PARANOIAThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2017-08-11 at 5:45 AM UTCPinpointing San Francisco is a bit harder than say LA. I think LA would be the prime target. they could overshoot Guam probably easily. the San Francisco bay is fairly easy but the City itself is on the opposite side of the hills, but the LA basin would be easy to hit for North Korea and that would look like a major first victory on the start of a war and first win on a battle?
though we know it's just a sucker punch like Pearl Harbor was. LA is the first place to strike. Maybe Hawaii as well.
San Francisco would cause a world economy slide because of it being the HQ for a large percentage of companies Nasdaq is based on?
Seattle would be another. Chicago is probably not a target. NYC is too far now but a major banking and trading hub. and Washington DC would be it's biggest hit point yet very difficult for their missiles to pinpoint.
So if it Happens.. Guam, Hawaiian Islands or LA and maybe San Diego -
2017-08-11 at 5:50 AM UTC
is a handy graphic
though, as per the last few posts, there's a good chance that even if he did launch ICBMs there's a good chance they'd be intercepted or otherwise disabled (ecm). He likely has other nasty surprises in case things kick off. -
2017-08-11 at 6:01 AM UTCI still feel he's looking at LA .
LA are too laid back to give a shit. but then again, they're over actors down there too when shit hits the fan.
the good thing is Vandenberg AFB is just above LA and probably has these thad missiles. not sure if they are used for incoming. I guess NIKE defense isn't on the table since it's outdated? but liek I said.. high altitude air burst might fuck up tv for a day and any cell phone calls, but it's probably less radiation to worry about these days over that of say Fukashima and the tides bringing radiation over to the west coast. -
2017-08-11 at 6:20 AM UTC
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2017-08-11 at 6:21 AM UTC
Originally posted by Totse 2001 I still feel he's looking at LA .
LA are too laid back to give a shit. but then again, they're over actors down there too when shit hits the fan.
the good thing is Vandenberg AFB is just above LA and probably has these thad missiles. not sure if they are used for incoming. I guess NIKE defense isn't on the table since it's outdated? but liek I said.. high altitude air burst might fuck up tv for a day and any cell phone calls, but it's probably less radiation to worry about these days over that of say Fukashima and the tides bringing radiation over to the west coast.
I guess LA's seen as a rotten core of the US; it's known for excess and the media and porno industries live there.
No idea about NIKE (looks like it is out of date), their main antimissile defences are based around the AEGIS (utilised by the carrier fleets) and AEGIS ONSHORE detection and targeting systems backed up by Patriot missile batteries as I understand it - the idea is to detect the missile launch and track it early on, intercepting it before it picks up extreme speed and makes it's final approach.
There's also the new THAAD system which uses a high-power X-BAND radar to track the inbound missile precisely so that a smaller projectile can be fired at the inbound missile in it's terminal phase (ie. as it comes crashing down through the stratosphere), but contrary to press releases over the last few months the system has not been favourably tested in real-world conditions.
Further, there aren't many THAAD systems in operation and by merit of how it works, the one deployed in SK will not be able to intercept a missile that isn't aimed at South Korea.
Originally posted by benny vader but can a tungsten tipped missile penetrate a tungsten roofed bunker ???
probably, would cost a lot more to make a bunker out of tungsten though and it's NK we're talking about -
2017-08-11 at 6:21 AM UTCOOGA BOOGA BOOGA
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2017-08-11 at 6:29 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra I guess LA's seen as a rotten core of the US; it's known for excess and the media and porno industries live there.
highest jedi concentration.
Originally posted by aldra probably, would cost a lot more to make a bunker out of tungsten though and it's NK we're talking about
true but then labor=cost, and when you have limitless labor .... -
2017-08-11 at 9:11 AM UTCyou guys do realize most of the sources of your information is either directly or indirectly US government based, right?
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2017-08-11 at 9:45 AM UTC
