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Ukraine to hold referendums on joining Russia
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2022-09-23 at 3:33 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson In such a quick and effective way? no…just like Truman didn't either (who was of sound mind).
Well... You're wrong. Regular TBMs can level city blocks, let alone modern thermobarics. There's no need to dick around with MAD doctrine to kill a government.
The main reason they don't, among other things, is that Ukrainian political and military command has been largely supplanted by NATO. Even if the entire government were wiped out, a replacement would immediately step in and continue the same policies. Military command is largely controlled by the SBU, which reports directly to MI6 and the CIA.
Why do you think the negotiations in Turkey succeeded in writing up a ceasefire and future de-escalation plan, but was immediately torn up after a visit from Boris Johnson? -
2022-09-23 at 3:36 PM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny a small tactical nuke doesnt count as "nuke" in the sense that will not trigger MAD.
Jesus Maria and Jose...
I said at the beginning this wouldn't trigger MAD...(if not in this thread in another) that would be the advantage of doing it...I said "USA, UK, Germany etc are not going to destroy the world for a strike on a bumfucked country"...or words to that effect.
Ukraine isn't under the "protection" of said nuclear countries. -
2022-09-23 at 3:38 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra There's no need to dick around with MAD doctrine to kill a government.
lol, you guys and your obsession/belief this would have anything to do with MAD...it wouldn't...Putin might be a bit nuts but he's not that nuts to attack a nato country...NATO is NOT going to destroy the world for 1 or 2 tactical nukes on bumfucked Ukraine. -
2022-09-23 at 3:45 PM UTC
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2022-09-23 at 3:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson lol, you guys and your obsession/belief this would have anything to do with MAD…it wouldn't…Putin might be a bit nuts but he's not that nuts to attack a nato country…NATO is NOT going to destroy the world for 1 or 2 tactical nukes on bumfucked Ukraine.
No, it's you that doesn't understand MAD.
Nuclear weapons only exist as a deterrent so long as nobody 'breaks the seal' - there's an equilibrium where as soon as anyone uses one, it immediately normalises nuclear warfare and the threshold for use drops dramatically. Nuclear countries will try to pre-empt each other's use (pre-emptive strike policies exist already, but with very strict criteria), and non-proliferation ends. -
2022-09-23 at 3:46 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra No, it's you that doesn't understand MAD.
Nuclear weapons only exist as a deterrent so long as nobody 'breaks the seal' - there's an equilibrium where as soon as anyone uses one, it immediately normalises nuclear warfare and the threshold for use drops dramatically. Nuclear countries will try to pre-empt each other's use (pre-emptive strike policies exist already, but with very strict criteria), and non-proliferation ends.
What does the "M" stand for in Mad...Ukraine doesn't qualify...
I am 100% sure if a tactical nuke was dropped on Kiev there would NOT be a nuclear response from any of the Nuclear countries... -
2022-09-23 at 3:48 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson What does the "M" stand for in Mad…Ukraine doesn't qualify…
Ukraine is essentially in NATO in everything but name. That's not the point though.
Nuclear weapons are not used because the countries that have them have all agreed not to use them. Once someone breaks it, the agreement is gone. -
2022-09-23 at 3:48 PM UTCUsa didnt invade japan moron. It git attacked like ukraine.
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Well they already tried and failed didn't they…that was also thousands of lives and millions/billions of equipment ago…and they aren't doing any better conventionally.
Again…pretty much the same decision the USA made, save lives and end the war quickly…it worked for the USA. -
2022-09-23 at 3:49 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra Ukraine is essentially in NATO in everything but name. That's not the point though.
Nuclear weapons are not used because the countries that have them have all agreed not to use them. Once someone breaks it, the agreement is gone.
Taiwan is moreso according ro biden or his threats to china at least. -
2022-09-23 at 3:49 PM UTCwow people on this forum are a lot smarter than i presumed
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2022-09-23 at 3:50 PM UTCNobody's saying there will necessarily be an immediate nuclear response, but MAD is gone and there is no longer any (strategic) difference between nuclear and conventional weapons.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2022-09-23 at 3:51 PM UTC
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2022-09-23 at 3:54 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra Nobody's saying there will necessarily be an immediate nuclear response, but MAD is gone and there is no longer any (strategic) difference between nuclear and conventional weapons.
MAD is not gone because again Ukraine isn't a nuclear country..."mutual"...keyword.
You attack a nuclear country or one officially protected by a nuclear country, you risk MAD.
You drop a tactical nuke on Ukraine or The Congo...Nato gets mad (not M.A.D.) and say's "we strongly object to this action!" -
2022-09-23 at 3:55 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson no it isn't.
Nato's response in 2014 when Russia invaded
"No NATO territory has been invaded by Russia, so NATO's collective defense commitment has not been formally tested. "
don't be retarded.
Almost all of the heavy military hardware they have is NATO gear since the domestic/Soviet stuff has been wiped out, their political and military command apparatus report to NATO, their military on the ground is heavily supported by NATO and the full US intelligence network (satellites, aerial surveillance, military intelligence etc.) is supporting it. -
2022-09-23 at 3:56 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson MAD is not gone because again Ukraine isn't a nuclear country…"mutual"…keyword.
You attack a nuclear country or one officially protected by a nuclear country, you risk MAD.
You drop a tactical nuke on Ukraine or The Congo…Nato gets mad and say's "we strongly object to this action!"
If you don't understand after the last two posts, I'm not even going to bother anymore. It doesn't matter who gets hit with a nuclear weapon, it matters that a nuclear weapon was used. We're talking about the doctrine, not an immediate nuclear exchange.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-09-23 at 3:59 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra don't be retarded.
Almost all of the heavy military hardware they have is NATO gear
Seriously??? You think simply because Nato support Ukraine by giving them weapons in your mind that makes them part and protected by nato?
Supporting one side doesn't mean you are going to get directly involved...again especially if it means the destruction of life as we know it. -
2022-09-23 at 3:59 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Jesus Maria and Jose…
I said at the beginning this wouldn't trigger MAD…(if not in this thread in another) that would be the advantage of doing it…I said "USA, UK, Germany etc are not going to destroy the world for a strike on a bumfucked country"…or words to that effect.
Ukraine isn't under the "protection" of said nuclear countries.
i know, i gave you two part just to see if you will ignore answering the hard question by answering the simple one.
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2022-09-23 at 4 PM UTCi heard ukraine isn't part of nato so it would be 100% just like if George Washington nuked Osama bin Laden after 9/11 but then was like oh ya whoops i got kabul & baghdad and rushed in with troops to "secure the election claims" and voted themselves 51st & 52nd states of the USA
Just like Putin is gonna do to half (all?) of Ukraine
it just might take him awhile cuz in 'murica, my president is Biden has a nuclear arsenal in a lil chrome book witha big ass button that says GO! -
2022-09-23 at 4:01 PM UTCnot sure if they got dat in russia but im pretty sur
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2022-09-23 at 4:03 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson
Seriously??? You think simply because Nato support Ukraine by giving them weapons in your mind that makes them part and protected by nato?
Supporting one side doesn't mean you are going to get directly involved…again especially if it means the destruction of life as we know it.
lol
did you just not read the whole post or not want to deal with it
