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2018-12-15 at 7:46 AM UTCYeah I never got too deep into crypto because I just don't have the math background for it. It's definitely worth learning if you're interested, but a lot of reading if you didn't do 4 unit in high school and/or go to university.
That and the current state of the tech industry/community makes it very difficult for me to care about it at the moment -
2018-12-15 at 7:48 AM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks So basically like a block cipher kinda thing?
Kinda, like technically it is a block cipher with a block size of one byte, but that's a really shitty block cipher. Also notably lacking is anything like cypher block chaining. In EBC schemes like this blocks (literally one character in this case) resolve to substitution schemes, that is two identical blocks in the cipher text are identical in the plaintext. This is terrible and like the most trivial case for cryptanalysis, especially in the case of block size 1, and you can break it with stupidly simple frequency analysis.
Technically there is something going on here, which each block is being XOR'd with the (N mod <key length>)th character of the "key", the "pw" var, but this doesn't really do anything and is just cargo cult crypto because you can still do frequency analysis by guessing the key length. In fact you can actually recover the key because of this which is worse than doing nothing at all.You take a list of all ASCII characters (and another list for all hex characters, i.e. 'var x'), and use the "pw" variable as the cipher, and then use an arbitrary bit shifting statement (in this case, the integer 44 was chosen) to then translate the gibberish via the "pw" cipher…
It's not too dissimilar to most hashing algorithms like Sha and all that.
So just a terminological point here, but binary xoring is typically called a "bitwise" operation rather than a "bit shifting" operation, bit shifting just refers to left/right shifts.
This is distinct from SHA in that the SHA family of algorithms produce a digest such that the input is not recoverable. SHA algorithms also don't involve a secret key. This is a symmetric cipher, so like in the same family as AES or something, although it's dogshit and mentioning it in the same breath as AES feels dirty.
Originally posted by -SpectraL Lanny just hates me. That's why he won't give me any credit for my obfuscated fork bomb. And it does work on Chrome and all other browsers. It's not blocked. Try if for yourself by copy&paste the code into test.html and run it.
You didn't write this, this doesn't work on chrome, and it's not a fork bomb. If you knew what a fork bomb was you'd realize that lol. Go suck a fat fucking dick you poser piece of shit. Like if you're going to pretend to be good at something and steal someone else's (shitty) work, at least pick something more interesting than programming you pathetic fucking worm. -
2018-12-15 at 7:55 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra Yeah I never got too deep into crypto because I just don't have the math background for it. It's definitely worth learning if you're interested, but a lot of reading if you didn't do 4 unit in high school and/or go to university.
That and the current state of the tech industry/community makes it very difficult for me to care about it at the moment
Somewhere along the line I picked up an interest in math, but I definitely did not always have it.
I honestly buy math books that are well beyond my level understanding, and just kinda dive in and try to make sense of them bit by bit.
I'm no Good Will Hunting or anything like that, I get stuck pretty easily on page 1, paragraph 1 of my copy of "Linear Algebra" or "An Introduction to Abstract Algebra", or even a book I bought recently on Graph Theory. Like, introductory books, but to complex topics.
But yeah, I find myself taking my sweet time, and sometimes straight up giving up for a little while. Teaching yourself advanced mathematics is, at least I like to believe, feasible, but it's not exactly easy.
Officially/Academically speaking, I think my highest level of math education is grade 12 math. I don't even think I successfully passed it even. -
2018-12-15 at 8:03 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Kinda, like technically it is a block cipher with a block size of one byte, but that's a really shitty block cipher. Also notably lacking is anything like cypher block chaining. In EBC schemes like this blocks (literally one character in this case) resolve to substitution schemes, that is two identical blocks in the cipher text are identical in the plaintext. This is terrible and like the most trivial case for cryptanalysis, especially in the case of block size 1, and you can break it with stupidly simple frequency analysis.
Yeah, it was kinda reminding me of like, pre-Turing-era cryptography. Like the kind of thing the Zodiac killer probably used.
Decipherable if you have the right keys, or lots of computing power and dedication.
Originally posted by Lanny Technically there is something going on here, which each block is being XOR'd with the (N mod <key length>)th character of the "key", the "pw" var, but this doesn't really do anything and is just cargo cult crypto because you can still do frequency analysis by guessing the key length. In fact you can actually recover the key because of this which is worse than doing nothing at all.
Tomorrow when I'm sober again I'm gonna take a closer look at it all. It kinda gives off vibes that it might have been somewhat useful to obscure some string of text for like, passing notes around in high school or something. Like it would work, but it's not exactly NSA or CIA approved.
Originally posted by Lanny It's not too dissimilar to most hashing algorithms like Sha and all that.
So just a terminological point here, but binary xoring is typically called a "bitwise" operation rather than a "bit shifting" operation, bit shifting just refers to left/right shifts.
This is distinct from SHA in that the SHA family of algorithms produce a digest such that the input is not recoverable. SHA algorithms also don't involve a secret key. This is a symmetric cipher, so like in the same family as AES or something, although it's dogshit and mentioning it in the same breath as AES feels dirty.
I have a lot more to learn about both cryptography in general, and bitwise operations more specifically. I legit couldn't even tell you off of the top of my head what the difference between XOR and NOR is.
Well, after a few minutes of (slightly inebriated) thought, I could come up with some kind of answer, although it might be completely wrong...
XOR is eXclusive, meaning 0 XOR 1 resolves to true because JUST ONE is true, but 0 XOR 0 would be false and 1 XOR 1 would be false.
Whereas NOR resolves to true if either one OR the other is true... So 0 NOR 1 is true, whereas 1 NOR 1 is also true.
I think.
I might be way off. -
2018-12-15 at 8:07 AM UTCI was taking pre-calculus in highschool. It is embarrassing how little of that information I retained. When I went back to college after so many years, I had to go to a tutor to get myself into college level courses, which is just like basic algebra pretty much.
Then I dropped out of college and more years passed and now I have to study again to re-take that stupid fucking test. Otherwise I will be in a remedial class. People who can retain this knowledge honestly baffle me. Like today when I was fucking with the modulo operator today I had to google what a remainder was.
Maybe it was the drugsThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 8:14 AM UTC
Originally posted by GGG I was taking pre-calculus in highschool. It is embarrassing how little of that information I retained. When I went back to college after so many years, I had to go to a tutor to get myself into college level courses, which is just like basic algebra pretty much.
Then I dropped out of college and more years passed and now I have to study again to re-take that stupid fucking test. Otherwise I will be in a remedial class. People who can retain this knowledge honestly baffle me. Like today when I was fucking with the modulo operator today I had to google what a remainder was.
Maybe it was the drugs
Gonna sound bad, but having to retake that stupid test is basically the biggest thing stopping me from going back to college (aside from social retardation). It's not even like the test is that hard, it's just a goddamn hassle.
'though I guess so is the rest of college, and if I find even that too bothersome it's probably good that I don't waste my time/money on re-enrolling. 😅 -
2018-12-15 at 8:17 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra That and the current state of the tech industry/community makes it very difficult for me to care about it at the moment
I also wanted to touch on that point too...
So, with very little (basically none-whatsoever) formal education in programming, computer science, or software development, I find myself currently in a position at a startup where my job title, at least on our company website, is "Blockchain Developer."
It's kinda surreal to me for a whole host of reasons, one of which being that I have ZERO interest in crypo-currencies.
I know what Bitcoin is - I use it to buy drugs off the deep web.
But the whole cryptocurrency fad is just, utterly uninteresting to me.
So, I generally do not lead with my job title when I meet people, because then they always wanna talk about cryptocurrencies.
Anyway, through sheer serendipitous happenstance, I kinda just fell into this job. I work primarily on software that incorporates PRIVATE/ENTERPRISE blockchain technology, and has nothing to do with crypto-currencies.
A dude I knew - friend of a friend - was looking to hire developers for a new startup, and said they needed experts in private/enterprise blockchain solutions like IBM's / The Linux Foundations' Hyperledger.
So I went and learned everything I could about it, because I need a job (I've been teaching myself programming for the past few years, mostly via Youtube video tutorials, blog posts, and a fuck ton of hobby projects). But I never had a focal point or any kind of niche.
But boy did I ever find one.
VERY few people can claim any hands-on experience, let alone any degree of expertise in private blockchain implementation.
Well, I've successfully deployed both Hyperledger Fabric AND Ethereum's Quorum private blockchains, complete with front-end functionality and everything.
So I basically just kinda slipped, fell, and landed in this niche.
I went on kind of a drunken tangent there, but it's kind of a crazy story though, ain't it?
Exactly one year ago, I was working in a call center doing CELL PHONE BILLING support for pretty much minimum wage.
Now I'm a resident subject matter expert making triple what I made before.
Life can be kinda funny like that sometimes.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 8:17 AM UTCAlso I think I should just clarify that distributing cipher text with the key (AND the decryption procedure in this case, no less) isn't really cryptography at all. It's just making you read a little code to get at the plaintext.
Originally posted by gadzooks I have a lot more to learn about both cryptography in general, and bitwise operations more specifically. I legit couldn't even tell you off of the top of my head what the difference between XOR and NOR is.
Well, after a few minutes of (slightly inebriated) thought, I could come up with some kind of answer, although it might be completely wrong…
XOR is eXclusive, meaning 0 XOR 1 resolves to true because JUST ONE is true, but 0 XOR 0 would be false and 1 XOR 1 would be false.
Whereas NOR resolves to true if either one OR the other is true… So 0 NOR 1 is true, whereas 1 NOR 1 is also true.
That's right in the case of XOR. What you described as NOR is actually OR, NOR is just negated OR, so x NOR y is true iff both and and y are 0.
Originally posted by GGG Then I dropped out of college and more years passed and now I have to study again to re-take that stupid fucking test. Otherwise I will be in a remedial class. People who can retain this knowledge honestly baffle me. Like today when I was fucking with the modulo operator today I had to google what a remainder was.
Maybe it was the drugs
It's just about usage. Any time I don't use a piece of math (or anything from any subject really) for a while I need to go back and brush up on it. I still can't really do useful calculus without looking it up just because it so infrequently comes up. Reacquiring some topic gets faster each time thoughThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 8:19 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Also I think I should just clarify that distributing cipher text with the key (AND the decryption procedure in this case, no less) isn't really cryptography at all. It's just making you read a little code to get at the plaintext.
lul
I actually had this post half-written and didn't bother finishing it:
> complaining about the strength of a function written in a client-side scripting language withThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 8:25 AM UTClol, yeah, I got baited into a crypto discussion and forgot the idiotic context it came up in.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-15 at 8:32 AM UTC
Originally posted by GGG Like today when I was fucking with the modulo operator today I had to google what a remainder was.
Maybe it was the drugs
Dude, I have to google the precise definition of modulo and modulus all the damn time.
My brain retains a vague general understanding of it, that it involves dividing two numbers and a remainder, but the exact mathematical/code syntax to use the modulo operator, no matter how many times I use it (since it is pretty sparingly, albeit consistently), will always give me pause for thought.
And even returning to the topic of recursion I brought up earlier... At least I think I did in this thread...
Anyway, there are some parts of programming, or really any skillset, that you only get better at with practice, but may always sustain some degree of confusion.
Either that, or we're both dumb from all the drugs.
But the way I see it is, even if the quantity and variety of drugs I've done over the years has essentially "fried my brain", or even if I was just straight up born with a low IQ, or maybe the ADHD I talk about having all the time is a real thing, or who knows what...
Don't let thoughts like that act as barriers to learning a new skill.
You clearly demonstrated in this thread and through Kik throughout the day that are capable of learning some of the fundamentals of programming.
And if you can learn the fundamentals, you can learn anything.
Eventually, the out-of-reach-stuff becomes the new "fundamentals".The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 8:35 AM UTCWhite Mulatto Black is Zero
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2018-12-15 at 8:36 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra > complaining about the strength of a function written in a client-side scripting language with
Yeah I lol'd...
Originally posted by Lanny Also I think I should just clarify that distributing cipher text with the key (AND the decryption procedure in this case, no less) isn't really cryptography at all. It's just making you read a little code to get at the plaintext.
Yeah like why was something labeled "pw" (CLEARLY meant to be some kind of, I don't know, password, right there in the same code.
Originally posted by Lanny That's right in the case of XOR. What you described as NOR is actually OR, NOR is just negated OR, so x NOR y is true iff both and and y are 0.
Ok, so there is another variation (XOR, NOR, and regular OR).
I've just gotta hit the books a bit again and get a refresher on my bitwise operations.
I have dabbled in them, but by no means used them with any serious frequency.
Originally posted by Lanny lol, yeah, I got baited into a crypto discussion and forgot the idiotic context it came up in.
Oh man they are the worst kinds of discussions.
Apparently though, to give credit where it's due, apparently some people really did make a fortune on it.
The ones who were lucky enough to invest back in like 2011 or whatever. -
2018-12-15 at 8:40 AM UTCGadzooks is my hype manThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-15 at 8:41 AM UTC
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2018-12-15 at 8:43 AM UTC
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2018-12-15 at 8:49 AM UTCBut what do i do with the 1.5k i have in crypto
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2018-12-15 at 8:53 AM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks Is this like an analogy for bitwise operations?
w = 1
b = 0
w ^ wb ^ b = 0?
Actually no, I think I'm way off.
Your post is too cryptic for me to interpret.
Pun possible intended. I can't remember.
Yeah, don't overthink it. You just line up two bit strings and do the logical operation between each pair of aligned bits. e.g.
9 = 00001001
1 = 00000001
1 XOR 9 (each out bit is set iff exactly one in bit is set):
9 = 00001001
1 = 00000001
------------
00001000
1 OR 9 (each out bit is set if one or both of the in bits are set):
9 = 00001001
1 = 00000001
------------
00001001
Calculation is really easy, just remember how to line them up and the operation (the name is a pretty straight forward mnemonic). Some interesting things fall out of bitwise operations, you see XOR used a lot in crypto and in low level languages they're a way of smushing a bunch of yes/no values together into one word (typically called flags) and that can get confusing when people talk about that in non-binary systems (like "0640" permissions means something that has nothing to do with that particular number, only its binary representation), but the operations themselves are dead simple.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-15 at 9:01 AM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-15 at 9:05 AM UTC
