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Poisoning of Sergei Skripal - Facts and Questions

  1. #1
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    The UK government, along with France, Germany and the US have accused Russia of poisoning an ex-USSR scientist who defected with 'Novichok' ('Novice' in Russian, literally 'new chemical weapon'). No evidence has yet been provided, and requests to share data through the OPCW investigation mechanism have been denied, though the UK has stated they intend to provide their own investigation data to the group at a later date. The instant reaction to blame the Russian state is highly questionable for several reasons:

    On Sergei Skripal
    - Sergei originally smuggled state secrets out of the USSR, including data on the Novichok program and others, and was sentenced to 13 years imprisonment by the Russian Military Court.
    - Sergei was released to the US in a prisoner swap.
    - Sergei wrote a book about the USSR and it's state secrets, and detailed in full the method to manufacture 'Novichok'. The method has not been verified by Russia or any other state.

    On 'Novichok'
    - As mentioned above, information on the manufacture of the nerve agent has been in the public domain for almost a decade - it is no longer a Russian/USSR state secret.
    - The primary facility where the agent was designed and tested was in Uzbekistan, and after the implosion of the USSR, the facility was 'cleaned up' by the US state and corporate contractors.

    On Assassination Methods
    - Typically, state-sponsored assassinations mean to remove a person that poses a danger to them without drawing attention to it - using a calling card or the act being easily traced back to a state actor typically causes more political strife than the target ever could.
    - As a result, the majority of assassinations are disguised as street crime or an accident.
    - Russia has recently used a nerve agent to kill a Chechen terrorist, but it was a 'last option' - he'd isolated himself in a high-security fortress and the only way they were able to get to him was via a mail handler that was constantly checked for weapons. [link]

    I won't go into detail on the claims of previous 'Russian Assassinations' except to say that to this day, there is no evidence that Russia had anything to do with the death of Alexander Litivenko (poisoned with Polonium), as well as many others hysterically listed in articles like this.

    The salient point is that Russia sentenced Sergei to 13 years imprisonment, not life or execution - and allowed him to be released to the US knowing he had a history of divulging state secrets. It makes no sense that after 8 years they would decide to murder him, especially using a flashing neon sign pointing to their (previous) chemical weapons program.
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  2. #2
    Xlite Tuskegee Airman
    Russia didn't do it, as you said yourself. Why leave a calling card?
    Putin is way smarter than that.

    I'm pretty sure cia is behind this false flag, just like the "hacking the election". USA knows its allies are growing tired of all the shit trump is doing, and so to prevent russia from gaining additional influence in europe, they arrange a hit that makes russia seem even worse than USA. Even tho its the other way around.

    The corruption is real.
  3. #3
    Originally posted by aldra It makes no sense that after 8 years they would decide to murder him, especially using a flashing neon sign pointing to their (previous) chemical weapons program.

    So North Korea didn’t kill Kim Jong-nam?
  4. #4
    Originally posted by Xlite Russia didn't do it, as you said yourself. Why leave a calling card?
    Putin is way smarter than that.

    I'm pretty sure cia is behind this false flag, just like the "hacking the election". USA knows its allies are growing tired of all the shit trump is doing, and so to prevent russia from gaining additional influence in europe, they arrange a hit that makes russia seem even worse than USA. Even tho its the other way around.

    The corruption is real.

    Maybe he’s trying to send a message to defectors to solidify his appearance of power during this election period. In a couple years he’s probably going to install himself as president for life like Chinese president Xi just did.
  5. #5
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by Fox Paws So North Korea didn’t kill Kim Jong-nam?

    Completely different situation.

    Originally posted by Fox Paws Maybe he’s trying to send a message to defectors to solidify his appearance of power during this election period. In a couple years he’s probably going to install himself as president for life like Chinese president Xi just did.

    He doesn't need to; preliminary polling indicates he already has 70% of the vote, and if you were familiar at all with the man or his policies you'd know that's nonsense.
  6. #6
    You’re right I actually don’t know shit about Russia. I usually read your posts when I wanna learn that stuff
  7. #7
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    I'm assuming nobody's all that interested in the topic, but I've been doing some reading into the actual 'NOVICHOK' program and it's pretty interesting.

    - NOVICHOK was the name of the program, not a specific chemical agent.
    - None of the (7 known) agents have been placed on the forbidden chemical weapons list because no samples have ever been seen by the OPCW or members, if they even exist outside of theory or small testing quantities since destroyed.
    - The information relating to NOVICHOK written by Skripal has not been officially verified by any state with the capacity to do so. Unofficial Russian/ex-Soviet sources have indicated that the information is incorrect or incomplete.
    - The majority of verifiable information on the program was provided by another defector, Vil Mirzayanov, who wrote about it in greater detail.
    - According to VM's data, the aim of the program appears not to be the creation of a 'new, undetectable, more lethal nerve agent' but rather ways to develop analogues for existing agents that were safer to handle and less prone to instability in storage.
    - There were 7 different agents tested, all based on existing nerve agents (starting with VX, then analogues of such, then Soman), the common thread between them being that they were all binary preparations that would be safe until mixed prior to use.

    More later, maybe
  8. #8
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    the most likely culprit behind this assassination could be the UK themselves.

    shes just trying to woo everyone beck to her side.
  9. #9
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    State use of a weapon on another state's territory can be interpreted as an official declaration of war. They likely have something planned that they need justification for.
  10. #10
    Zanick motherfucker [my p.a. supernal goa]
    Any idea as to what that might be if this is their method?
  11. #11
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by Zanick Any idea as to what that might be if this is their method?

    I honestly don't know; there are too many things going on - have a look at the last page of my Conflict Shitpile thread.

    I personally believe (I don't have any direct evidence for it) that this has been a joint operation between the US and UK to vilify Russia in the eyes of the public, as they've been ratcheting up the tension for the last few years (the rest of the EU has been following along but not taking such an active stance).

    Destabilising Ukraine didn't work (attempts against Belarus were dead in the water), using the media as a weapon has done nothing but strengthen VVP and the state's nationalism, hollow accusations of assassinations and state repression, sanctions, economic warfare, even blatant military threats (including massive NATO buildup on Russian borders) have failed to influence them. I can't imagine there are many more steps before open warfare, and I'm interpreting this kind of vilification as an attempt to prepare the public for it.
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  12. #12
    infinityshock Black Hole (banned)
    Originally posted by aldra The UK government, along with France, Germany and the US have accused Russia of poisoning an ex-USSR scientist who defected with 'Novichok' ('Novice' in Russian, literally 'new chemical weapon'). No evidence has yet been provided, and requests to share data through the OPCW investigation mechanism have been denied, though the UK has stated they intend to provide their own investigation data to the group at a later date. The instant reaction to blame the Russian state is highly questionable for several reasons:

    On Sergei Skripal
    - Sergei originally smuggled state secrets out of the USSR, including data on the Novichok program and others, and was sentenced to 13 years imprisonment by the Russian Military Court.
    - Sergei was released to the US in a prisoner swap.
    - Sergei wrote a book about the USSR and it's state secrets, and detailed in full the method to manufacture 'Novichok'. The method has not been verified by Russia or any other state.

    On 'Novichok'
    - As mentioned above, information on the manufacture of the nerve agent has been in the public domain for almost a decade - it is no longer a Russian/USSR state secret.
    - The primary facility where the agent was designed and tested was in Uzbekistan, and after the implosion of the USSR, the facility was 'cleaned up' by the US state and corporate contractors.

    On Assassination Methods
    - Typically, state-sponsored assassinations mean to remove a person that poses a danger to them without drawing attention to it - using a calling card or the act being easily traced back to a state actor typically causes more political strife than the target ever could.
    - As a result, the majority of assassinations are disguised as street crime or an accident.
    - Russia has recently used a nerve agent to kill a Chechen terrorist, but it was a 'last option' - he'd isolated himself in a high-security fortress and the only way they were able to get to him was via a mail handler that was constantly checked for weapons. [link]

    I won't go into detail on the claims of previous 'Russian Assassinations' except to say that to this day, there is no evidence that Russia had anything to do with the death of Alexander Litivenko (poisoned with Polonium), as well as many others hysterically listed in articles like this.

    The salient point is that Russia sentenced Sergei to 13 years imprisonment, not life or execution - and allowed him to be released to the US knowing he had a history of divulging state secrets. It makes no sense that after 8 years they would decide to murder him, especially using a flashing neon sign pointing to their (previous) chemical weapons program.

    everything ive been reading about this is MINITRU propaganda directed in a means to specifically vilify russia.

    the why, i dont know.
  13. #13
    infinityshock Black Hole (banned)
    Originally posted by aldra I'm assuming nobody's all that interested in the topic, but I've been doing some reading into the actual 'NOVICHOK' program and it's pretty interesting.

    - NOVICHOK was the name of the program, not a specific chemical agent.
    - None of the (7 known) agents have been placed on the forbidden chemical weapons list because no samples have ever been seen by the OPCW or members, if they even exist outside of theory or small testing quantities since destroyed.
    - The information relating to NOVICHOK written by Skripal has not been officially verified by any state with the capacity to do so. Unofficial Russian/ex-Soviet sources have indicated that the information is incorrect or incomplete.
    - The majority of verifiable information on the program was provided by another defector, Vil Mirzayanov, who wrote about it in greater detail.
    - According to VM's data, the aim of the program appears not to be the creation of a 'new, undetectable, more lethal nerve agent' but rather ways to develop analogues for existing agents that were safer to handle and less prone to instability in storage.
    - There were 7 different agents tested, all based on existing nerve agents (starting with VX, then analogues of such, then Soman), the common thread between them being that they were all binary preparations that would be safe until mixed prior to use.

    More later, maybe

    everything you find in open-sources relating to that 'program' should be taken with a grain of salt

    (forrest gump quote:) thats all ive got to say about that
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  14. #14
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    Originally posted by infinityshock the why, i dont know.

    rearmament and preservation of and restoring NATO to its former glory.

    trump was quite dismissive of nato.
  15. #15
    infinityshock Black Hole (banned)
    Originally posted by benny vader rearmament and preservation of and restoring NATO to its former glory.

    trump was quite dismissive of nato.

    no.

    im not seeing it, because what i am seeing was poorly planned, pathetically executed, with a dismal outcome which is hopefully not as obvious as the existing clues pointing to the amateurish retards who orchestrated it. im keeping my fingers crossed that this was just a bunch of non-state actors playing with a toy they thought would be cool to whip out and flail around like a giant cock to show off to the uninterested bystanders.
  16. #16
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    Originally posted by infinityshock no.

    im not seeing it, because what i am seeing was poorly planned, pathetically executed, with a dismal outcome which is hopefully not as obvious as the existing clues pointing to the amateurish retards who orchestrated it. im keeping my fingers crossed that this was just a bunch of non-state actors playing with a toy they thought would be cool to whip out and flail around like a giant cock to show off to the uninterested bystanders.

    maybe that was due to outsourcing.

    anyway ... the most likely outcome of all these will be another round of cold war .... which is a great and long awaited business opportunity.

    on both sides.
  17. #17
    infinityshock Black Hole (banned)
    Originally posted by benny vader maybe that was due to outsourcing.

    anyway … the most likely outcome of all these will be another round of cold war …. which is a great and long awaited business opportunity.

    on both sides.

    jedis
  18. #18
    -SpectraL coward [the spuriously bluish-lilac bushman]
    The Illuminati are trying to get a world war started with Russia so they can take over the planet in the process, and they will frame Russia for everything and anything they can cook up. It's that simple. Everything you hear from their muppets is lies and manufactured garbage.
  19. #19
    Daily an(nu)ally [dissolutely whisk the pantheon]
    Originally posted by -SpectraL The Illuminati are trying to get a world war started with Russia so they can take over the planet in the process, and they will frame Russia for everything and anything they can cook up. It's that simple. Everything you hear from their muppets is lies and manufactured garbage.

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  20. #20
    -SpectraL coward [the spuriously bluish-lilac bushman]
    Class I – The nursery, consisting of the Noviciate, the Minerval, and Illuminatus minor.

    Class II – The Masonic grades. The three "blue lodge" grades of Apprentice, Companion, and Master were separated from the higher "Scottish" grades of Scottish Novice and Scottish Knight.

    Class III – The Mysteries. The lesser mysteries were the grades of Priest and Prince, followed by the greater mysteries in the grades of Mage and King. It is unlikely that the rituals for the greater mysteries were ever written.
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