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how do I become a vegan
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2017-04-25 at 7:34 AM UTC^ "simply engage in avoidance"
Not even particularly long.
Originally posted by Dargo Oh lighten up.
I see no ethical concerns with eating meat because I'm religious. God gave us the animals of the world and said we can eat them, so I'm happy to do just that.
*sigh* And people have the audacity to belittle others... Well, at least you believe that veganism is fine. -
2017-04-25 at 7:42 AM UTC
Originally posted by Malice ^ "simply engage in avoidance"
Not even particularly long.
*sigh* And people have the audacity to belittle others… Well, at least you believe that veganism is fine.
Ok, I read it.
I'm not trying to belittle you or your beliefs, we just have vastly different opinions. Again, because I am religious, I see no problem with eating meat. I don't like things to suffer, and yeah, I kinda wish it was still like the Garden of Eden where all living creatures got along, but the reality is that we live in a fallen world, God ok'd meat, and it's pretty darn tasty. I'm grateful for it.
I don't hold the same fatalistic worldview as you, and I certainly don't believe I am less than or equal to an animal. That's where I think we part ways the most.
If you really want to be a vegan though, go for it. Seriously, have fun. It's not like there's a moral imperative that you must eat meat. -
2017-04-25 at 7:49 AM UTCNigga just become a vegetarian if you feel bad about eating meat.
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2017-04-25 at 7:51 AM UTC
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2017-04-25 at 7:56 AM UTC
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2017-04-25 at 7:57 AM UTC
Originally posted by Malice Of course, even veganism leads to death. Human beings consume an unbelieveable amount of resources. Lanny, look at the electronics around you, think of what it takes to support your lifestyle if you truly believe in Marx. You're a vampire as well, fully fueled by the suffering of others, those trapped in samsara who continue to struggle in vain, unable to accept what reality is, because it's easier than the alternative. Look at the fields and tell me there isn't life in there that will be sacrificed, if only field mice
No doubt, but pretty much any suffering that happens as a product of grain production also happens, to a larger degree per unit produced, in meat production. Better to inflict less suffering than more, even if some is inevitable.Back to the "interesting argument", it's essentially that, greenhouse gas arguments and the implications aside (terribly inaccurate and misleading, very superficial analysis), a cow raised for meat generally weighs XXXX pounds, but the critical factor is that it only consumes one life, especially if it is a humane one (I have personally seen them grazing in the hills of national parks in the east bay), far more than the lives of animals like chickens will provide.
Sure, but firstly it's not a humane lifestyle when we're talking about american meat you're likely to find in a supermarket and second, because again agriculture is necessary to sustain animal populations, it's one live on top of the amount of death necessitated by a vegan diet.
Originally posted by Dargo Oh lighten up.
Would you have preferred I reply with a smiley?I see no ethical concerns with eating meat because I'm religious. God gave us the animals of the world and said we can eat them, so I'm happy to do just that. If you would prefer not to, and your lifestyle can accommodate that, fine. Personal preference.
Well now this seems like a considerably different position than "all ethical reasons for veganism are illegitimate" -
2017-04-25 at 8:01 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Would you have preferred I reply with a smiley?
yes
Originally posted by Lanny Well now this seems like a considerably different position than "all ethical reasons for veganism are illegitimate"
They're illegitimate from my perspective as a religious person. Per Christianity, there is no moral/ethical mandate that prohibits consumption of meat. God actually says go for it. -
2017-04-25 at 8:05 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo They're illegitimate from my perspective as a religious person. Per Christianity, there is no moral/ethical mandate that prohibits consumption of meat. God actually says go for it.
Good for you?
Saying "from my perspective X is true" is kind of an unproductive statement. Like I could say "from my perspective your mom is a whore" and there's nothing really to say about it because it's barely even a statement. Do you think your belief is justified? If so then make an actual argument for it. If not, then why bother sharing at all? -
2017-04-25 at 8:11 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Good for you?
Saying "from my perspective X is true" is kind of an unproductive statement. Like I could say "from my perspective your mom is a whore" and there's nothing really to say about it because it's barely even a statement. Do you think your belief is justified? If so then make an actual argument for it. If not, then why bother sharing at all?
If we got into that, we'd wind up debating the legitimacy of Christianity itself. All I meant to say was, "Well, I'm religious, and because of that, I don't see any ethical concerns with eating meat. I actually find the whole debate rather silly, tbh."
What else do you want me to say? I was just giving an opinion, as people here often do. Want me to cite the Bible verses where it says we can eat meat? You seem salty and I'm not quite sure why. -
2017-04-25 at 8:11 AM UTCGod I hope ideas like (not necessarily in these exact forms) vertical farming and lab grown/artificial meat take of as soon as possible. Eating feels like one the largest innate indignations in human life.
Maybe one day I will beat depression and simply devote myself to ending all suffering on Earth in the most efficient way I am capable of (No, not mass murder, necessarily...). -
2017-04-25 at 8:20 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo If we got into that, we'd wind up debating the legitimacy of Christianity itself. All I meant to say was, "Well, I'm religious, and because of that, I don't see any ethical concerns with eating meat. I actually find the whole debate rather silly, tbh."
What else do you want me to say? I was just giving an opinion, as people here often do. Want me to cite the Bible verses where it says we can eat meat? You seem salty and I'm not quite sure why.
Uh, dude, the bible says all sorts of crazy, terrible, fucking shit. We could go into debates about what those passages are, how they're meant to be interpreted, why "God" would convey these to his "prophets" (probably schizophrenics, there's some interesting research and theories on the prevalence of shamans in primitive human cultures and how they may have been what some religious beliefs stem from), but that's a massive time sink and people generally don't enjoy it.
So let's just say this: Alright, in the bible it says that god gave dominion over the Earth and animals to man? Well what about everything else, some of which you can find within a few pages?! It's absurd. I understand why people come to religious beliefs, the comfort it can provide, and wouldn't necessarily want to take that away from someone, I'm not a preacher, I don't want anyone to attempt to convert me and in return don't want to attempt to convert anyone else. But still, have you ever asked yourself, "If I have to tell myself such a profound lie about reality just to get through the day, to endure ordinary life as a man, what does that say about the world?" As I said, there's an immense comfort, and not everyone finds a suitable alternative. Life absolutely is an existential horror and you should be afraid and uncomfortable, even of mere ideas. -
2017-04-25 at 8:24 AM UTCWhat about everything else? I don't follow that.
Also, I don't lie to myself (insert snarky comment here), and am very happy with my life. I see life as a cool gift, and I'm glad I get to enjoy it. -
2017-04-25 at 8:29 AM UTCeat seeds adn shit on sandpaper
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2017-04-25 at 8:33 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo If we got into that, we'd wind up debating the legitimacy of Christianity itself. All I meant to say was, "Well, I'm religious, and because of that, I don't see any ethical concerns with eating meat. I actually find the whole debate rather silly, tbh."
What else do you want me to say? I was just giving an opinion, as people here often do. Want me to cite the Bible verses where it says we can eat meat? You seem salty and I'm not quite sure why.
I mean I was kinda hoping you'd give an actual defense of your position. If your position requires you defend the entirety of the Christian metaphysics to sustain it I have to say you might be building a house on shaky foundations there. If you just want to throw your opinion out there and nothing else then you're free to, but I think it's a more interesting exercise to put forward your opinion and try to defend it in a way that's convincing to someone reading it. -
2017-04-25 at 8:46 AM UTC
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2017-04-25 at 8:52 AM UTC
Originally posted by Dargo What about everything else? I don't follow that.
Also, I don't lie to myself (insert snarky comment here), and am very happy with my life. I see life as a cool gift, and I'm glad I get to enjoy it.
What I meant was what about everything else that's in the bible? God didn't allegedly simply say we had dominion over the earth and animals and could simply fart around as we wanted. No, he allegedly said much more than that. I mean, if you've actually read the bible then probably know that he literally commands things that would be almost universally considered crimes against humanity in our modern era. In my eyes it's clear that people simply pick and choose what they want to believe, what's meant to be taken literally and what isn't.
And I agree, most people may not have to lie to themselves and dwell on the issues of god and the nature of existence to be happy. -
2017-04-25 at 8:53 AM UTC
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2017-04-25 at 8:56 AM UTC
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2017-04-25 at 9 AM UTC
Originally posted by Malice Milk is pretty fucking shitty anyways, tbh. The only things it's really worth pairing with are essentially an IV mainline of diabetes and heart disease staight to dome.
I was vegan for a couple years when I was younger
Since then I still can't drink milk or things with a lot of milk in them or I'll get sick -
2017-04-25 at 9:05 AM UTC
