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Trump asked Ukraine president to investigate Joe Biden's son 8 times in one phone call, under threat of withdrawing 250 million in military assistance to Ukraine
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2019-09-21 at 5:06 PM UTC
Originally posted by 8stringflinG I don't care about the one singular comment Bernie made. Literally every single person in existence has said some shit that they could've explained better. There's an interview I saw where he addresses this comment and explains it better, but I can't remember who did it. He's not a racist though, and none of his policies would negatively impact people of any particular race in the way Trump's have.
Also even his lowest paid staffers are making 36,000 a year, with 100% health coverage and two weeks paid vacation. They are not paid hourly, that's their yearly salary agreed upon after his staffers became the first political staffers to unionize. The reason they're complaining was more to do with the hours worked. A 40h work week would put them at about 17.75/h. But they were working sometimes 60h weeks and making more like 12-13/h. Now they've agreed to limit the work week down to 42 or 43 hours which would make it about 15/h. That's what's in their union contract.
I haven't heard of any other political candidate treating their staff this well. Sure, "Bernie refuses to pay staff 15/h" makes a good headline but the reality is not so clean and simple.
I'll make it a point to research Bernie's policies and actions more. I'm still much more in favor of Tulsi Gabbard, however. I'll look for sources to see both Bernie's justification for that one identitarian comment, but I'll also look to see if he hasn't made more such comments.
The other problem I have with Bernie is his stance on deportation. Now, I'll admit, previously Bernie was making sense on border security. So I'm not sure what he meant with not deporting anybody anymore. I'll look into it and scrutinize his position on this topic further, but ... As it stands, I am firmly against open borders policy.
I'll scrutinize and make more research into Bernie but at this point, as I have mentioned before, the entire democratic party is not where I feel at home anymore. I might be wrong on this one, but I also think that Bernie fails to adress Antifa for what they are: a terrorist group.
Bernie also failed to adress and correct course within the democratic party, as pointed out above. I don't remember him calling out the Dems on firing staffers because they're white.
TL;DR: My biggest problems are open borders policies, "forgetfulness" or outright denial of Antifa domestic terrorism and identitarianism. I'll be sure to research Bernie's stances on this more, but so far, Trump fights against all three of those problems to some degree.
So for now ... Unless Tulsi Gabbard makes it ... And until I have done more research ... I'm still going to prefer Trump over anything the left has to offer.
EDIT: Thankyou for a coherent and respectful debate. -
2019-09-21 at 5:20 PM UTCIt's coming out now that Hunter Biden was receiving $188,000 a month from the Ukraine government in a pay-for-play bribery scheme, over two million dollars per year.
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2019-09-21 at 6:26 PM UTC
Originally posted by Skulltag I'll make it a point to research Bernie's policies and actions more. I'm still much more in favor of Tulsi Gabbard, however. I'll look for sources to see both Bernie's justification for that one identitarian comment, but I'll also look to see if he hasn't made more such comments.
The other problem I have with Bernie is his stance on deportation. Now, I'll admit, previously Bernie was making sense on border security. So I'm not sure what he meant with not deporting anybody anymore. I'll look into it and scrutinize his position on this topic further, but … As it stands, I am firmly against open borders policy.
I'll scrutinize and make more research into Bernie but at this point, as I have mentioned before, the entire democratic party is not where I feel at home anymore. I might be wrong on this one, but I also think that Bernie fails to adress Antifa for what they are: a terrorist group.
Bernie also failed to adress and correct course within the democratic party, as pointed out above. I don't remember him calling out the Dems on firing staffers because they're white.
TL;DR: My biggest problems are open borders policies, "forgetfulness" or outright denial of Antifa domestic terrorism and identitarianism. I'll be sure to research Bernie's stances on this more, but so far, Trump fights against all three of those problems to some degree.
So for now … Unless Tulsi Gabbard makes it … And until I have done more research … I'm still going to prefer Trump over anything the left has to offer.
EDIT: Thankyou for a coherent and respectful debate.
I'm glad I was able to make you consider Bernie a little more. I've done a lot of research into his policies but I don't have the energy or time to rifle through everything right now, but he doesn't have an open border policy. He does want to reinstate DACA and other things. I think you should look into DACA if you haven't. It's a very reasonable solution that does not grand citizenship or permanent residency but does allow some sanctuary for people who, through no fault of their own, were taken into America illegally as children.
And frankly, illegal immigration has been on a decline for the past decade or so. I don't think it's a major issue, personally. It's already illegal to immigrate illegally, and people have always gotten deported. If we really want people to immigrate legally we should make stricter requirements for green cards (so that you can't get them once you've come here illegally) and make the process of becoming a citizen easier. I mean I had an uncle (a doctor mind you) who waited 4 years to get residency. By that time he had two children and started a business and no longer wanted to emigrate to America. I really feel like the right is just totally on the wrong page. Some of their policies are based on racism rather than a logical approach. It was only a matter of time before that racism bubbled to the surface and we ended up with a racist pig like Trump.
Right wing terrorism is objectively more prevalent than left wing terrorism though, so I feel focusing on 'but what about antifa' like some people do is just fucking silly. They were deemed as a terrorist group but it isn't even an organization of any kind. I really don't think Bernie 'addressing' them would change anything. I do believe he's hesitant to talk about left wing terrorism because he's left wing, though I also haven't really seen the issue posed to him. I reaaaaaallly don't believe he's in favor of violence to achieve results though. Meanwhile we've got Trump who has actively endorsed violence, so I find it hard to take his supporters seriously when they bring up antifa. A lot of people resort to deflecting if not straight up denying when it comes to Trump. He's definitely got a sort of fascist figurehead thing going on, he wants to be a dictator and has blatantly said as much with wanting to extend his term and idolizing actual dictators.
Putin recently extended his term. Xi did the same thing and then he extended it indefinitely. Hitler did it. It's like 'how to become a dictator 101'. I would say he's a threat to democracy, but thankfully I don't think he'll actually get anywhere with it lol. Thank God we've got our system of checks and balances. It's a fragile one and definitely not perfect, but it's a lot better than some other countries where people like Trump can worm their way into absolute power by abusing the system. -
2019-09-21 at 6:51 PM UTC
Originally posted by 8stringflinG I'm glad I was able to make you consider Bernie a little more. I've done a lot of research into his policies but I don't have the energy or time to rifle through everything right now, but he doesn't have an open border policy. He does want to reinstate DACA and other things. I think you should look into DACA if you haven't. It's a very reasonable solution that does not grand citizenship or permanent residency but does allow some sanctuary for people who, through no fault of their own, were taken into America illegally as children.
And frankly, illegal immigration has been on a decline for the past decade or so. I don't think it's a major issue, personally. It's already illegal to immigrate illegally, and people have always gotten deported. If we really want people to immigrate legally we should make stricter requirements for green cards (so that you can't get them once you've come here illegally) and make the process of becoming a citizen easier. I mean I had an uncle (a doctor mind you) who waited 4 years to get residency. By that time he had two children and started a business and no longer wanted to emigrate to America. I really feel like the right is just totally on the wrong page. Some of their policies are based on racism rather than a logical approach. It was only a matter of time before that racism bubbled to the surface and we ended up with a racist pig like Trump.
Right wing terrorism is objectively more prevalent than left wing terrorism though, so I feel focusing on 'but what about antifa' like some people do is just fucking silly. They were deemed as a terrorist group but it isn't even an organization of any kind. I really don't think Bernie 'addressing' them would change anything. I do believe he's hesitant to talk about left wing terrorism because he's left wing, though I also haven't really seen the issue posed to him. I reaaaaaallly don't believe he's in favor of violence to achieve results though. Meanwhile we've got Trump who has actively endorsed violence, so I find it hard to take his supporters seriously when they bring up antifa. A lot of people resort to deflecting if not straight up denying when it comes to Trump. He's definitely got a sort of fascist figurehead thing going on, he wants to be a dictator and has blatantly said as much with wanting to extend his term and idolizing actual dictators.
Putin recently extended his term. Xi did the same thing and then he extended it indefinitely. Hitler did it. It's like 'how to become a dictator 101'. I would say he's a threat to democracy, but thankfully I don't think he'll actually get anywhere with it lol. Thank God we've got our system of checks and balances. It's a fragile one and definitely not perfect, but it's a lot better than some other countries where people like Trump can worm their way into absolute power by abusing the system.
I'm drinking here, since it's the weekend so I might need a break from our debate and will give you more sources and concrete statements at a later time. However there are still some things I'd like to point out. While right wing terrorism is also undeniably true and is also as despicable as antifa, the biggest problem with that is that the right tends to denounce their loonies. For example, Steve King got booted almost immediately after his racist bullshit. While the left doesn't denounce antifa.
Another problem with antifa is that if we compare extreme-left and extreme-right terrorist groups in term of effective combat capability ... The right wing ones tend to be much more dangerous and much better trained. Traditionally, right-wing positions are in favor of 2A rights and thus, have much more contact with weapons. The left doesn't have that. A lot of democrats don't understand how modern weapons work. And while I can't blame them for it, because it shouldn't be mandatory to know about killing tools, this does mean that the left is trying to establish policies which they have little understanding of.
(This next argument is a little bit silly, because it's been done to death, but for example "Assault Weapons". What the left defines as an assault weapon is an AR-15 with a tacticool configuration. What happens if you have a larger caliber (thus more powerful) semi-automatic weapon with a wooden stock? They'll consider it just fine. But again, this is a silly and overdone argument, so take it with a grain of salt.)
But the left has something that the right doesn't. Masses. The prime example is of course Andy Ngo, but there are many, many more reports of anti-fa aggression. The bike lock basher, for example. In what world do you justify beating down a senior citizen, even if she's wearing a MAGA hat? The right might be more letal than the left with their loonies. But the left loonies spread out their terror acts much more evenly, with larger numbers.
More importantly, I condemn both. Just because it takes 10 left wing terrorists to cause the same amount of damage as 1 right wing terrorist doesn't mean that the left wing terrorists are excused. Both are bad. Both should be prosecuted.
And finally ... As it stands, I think the left is just as fascist, if not more than the right at this point. Russian atrocities which eventually became the USSR also started with what was a "popular" movement. Very much akin antifa. Antifa right now is beginning to militarize. There are Antifa cells which are calling for weaponization. Familiarization with weaponry. What do you think will happen when these massess escalate from bike locks to AKMs and AR-15s? Fascism.
Right now, the left is fighting Trump, by any means necessary. And that is where I draw the line. If the left stoops down to fascism by fighting fascism, then that's too much. Both will end up fascist in the end, but one of them will claim false moral superiority while the other will pretty much be clear on their intentions from the start. I'd rather have Trump than to have the extreme left begin a civil war in the name of "by all means necessary". I'd rather people insult me, call me stupid, be racist towards me and belittle me than rush me with bike locks, spears, batons and rifles.
I am confident that the right will curb their loonies, as has been demonstrated with Steve King. But I'm not confident the left will curb theirs. As such, I'd rather lean right on this one.
Some sources: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04/21/antifa-wants-combat-training-and-firearms-after-losing-the-battle-for-berkely
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/04/20/after-berkeley-beat-down-antifa-wants-combat-training-guns/
P.S.: With this, I must bow out for now, as I am slowly getting drunker and drunker and feel like I'm losing coherence. I don't want the quality of this debate to be affected by my vices, so, if you're so inclined, we can get together to discuss this more at a later time. -
2019-09-21 at 6:58 PM UTCskulltag is a bitchass victim who's scared of his own shadow
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2019-09-21 at 7:02 PM UTC
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2019-09-22 at 11:43 PM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2019-09-22 at 11:54 PM UTCOy vey Turnip asked for someone to investigated to find out if he did anything wrong what a horror oy my skin condition oy vey my eczema oy vey the antisemites oy vey its a new shoah oy vey the six million oy vey my reparationsThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2019-09-23 at 12 AM UTC
Originally posted by Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Oy vey Turnip asked for someone to investigated to find out if he did anything wrong what a horror oy my skin condition oy vey my eczema oy vey the antisemites oy vey its a new shoah oy vey the six million oy vey my reparations
Lmao he coerced a foreign entity to investigate. That's what the FBI is for. Oh but of course, the FBI is corrupt amirite? -
2019-09-23 at 12:06 AM UTC
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2019-09-23 at 12:07 AM UTC
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2019-09-23 at 12:17 AM UTC
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2019-09-23 at 12:32 AM UTCthat makes it at least 3x worse
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2019-09-23 at 1:22 AM UTC
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2019-09-23 at 3:32 AM UTCwhy is your vagina so sore latelyThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2019-09-23 at 3:48 AM UTC
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2019-09-23 at 3:56 AM UTCI for one am very happy trump withdrew military aid to Ukraine, regardless of his reasoning. Obama was using Canada as a proxy to train Ukrainian troops but I believe that program has stopped. Ukraine is scam of a countryThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2019-09-23 at 3:58 AM UTCmy recent favourite thing was when Netenyahu went to the Ukraine to commemorate the 'Babi Yar Massacre' and they shouted their 'Glory to Ukraine, Glory to Heroes!' chant at them.
which was coincidentally the last thing the victims at Babi Yar heardThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-09-23 at 4:04 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra my recent favourite thing was when Netenyahu went to the Ukraine to commemorate the 'Babi Yar Massacre' and they shouted their 'Glory to Ukraine, Glory to Heroes!' chant at them.
which was coincidentally the last thing the victims at Babi Yar heard
I hope he saw some right sector members (or Azov Battalion or any other nazi paramilitary group they have entrenched in the state there, they're so many they're hard to keep track of) chumming it up with "politicians" and bends down to his chair to shake hands with the super jedi former mayor of Kharkiv who took a bullet for talking shit about the Maiden protests
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/kernes-kharkiv-mayor-escapes-all-criminal-charges.html
I remember seeing his instagram before the shooting and after and it caused me much laughter -
2019-09-23 at 4:06 AM UTC
Fucking LOL this picture doesn't look real and kyiv post is definitely fake newsThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
