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ATTN : Lanny, aldra, sophie, other coders.
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2019-09-15 at 4:52 AM UTCthe problem with that is forcing every video creation and change to create a hash and push it to the blockchain
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2019-09-15 at 5:08 AM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks Hey retard…
Doesn't address what I said retard.
Originally posted by gadzooks The difference being?
I know you're actually a literal retard, but you've probably at least heard of timestamps?
Originally posted by gadzooks You can't fucking edit video in real time, dumbass.
The difference being that a fake file can be what you are checking against. How do you know I didn't just upload the checksum of a deepfake? Who says it has anything to do with editing a video in real time? -
2019-09-15 at 5:44 AM UTC
Originally posted by aldra the problem with that is forcing every video creation and change to create a hash and push it to the blockchain
Yeah there would definitely be some logistics to work out.
I guess the half baked idea I kinda have in my head is that there would be some kind of mechanism like follows (in pseudocode):
# arbitrarily choosing an hour interval, measured in milliseconds #
VIDEO_UNIT_INTERVAL = 3600000
while True:
if video.length > VIDEO_UNIT_INTERVAL:
save_to_government_database(video)
checksum = hash(video)
save_to_blockchain(checksum)
video = new Video()
Or a new video could be started for every new case the police or whatever respond to. -
2019-09-15 at 5:45 AM UTC
Originally posted by Rear Naked Joke The difference being that a fake file can be what you are checking against. How do you know I didn't just upload the checksum of a deepfake? Who says it has anything to do with editing a video in real time?
If the video is SAVED in real time, then there's zero opportunity to produce a deepfake. -
2019-09-15 at 8:50 AM UTCI'm not sure, you could try to create an identity system where you can verify "this video that John gave me is the same as the video that John published a checksum for" but I don't think it does anything to validate something like "this video of scarlett johansson taking the D is real", and if no checksum is published (and almost none will be when a proposed technology is trying to get adoption) then you can say absolutely nothing about the veracity of a video or its author.
But even this limited use case of verifying a given video is what a given author intended to distribute is already by normal cryptographic signing without any need for a distributed ledger, "just" key exchange. I'm not sure what ground you'd be gaining by doing blockchain stuff with it.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-09-15 at 9:54 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny I'm not sure, you could try to create an identity system where you can verify "this video that John gave me is the same as the video that John published a checksum for" but I don't think it does anything to validate something like "this video of scarlett johansson taking the D is real", and if no checksum is published (and almost none will be when a proposed technology is trying to get adoption) then you can say absolutely nothing about the veracity of a video or its author.
But even this limited use case of verifying a given video is what a given author intended to distribute is already by normal cryptographic signing without any need for a distributed ledger, "just" key exchange. I'm not sure what ground you'd be gaining by doing blockchain stuff with it.
what im looking for is a technology that can prove and verify the authencity of the footages taken by tying it to the very camera where the footages came from and has remain unaltered.
checksums can prove the integrity of files but not the source they came from. -
2019-09-15 at 10:09 AM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks If the video is SAVED in real time, then there's zero opportunity to produce a deepfake.
Retard. Try to read this very carefully: what is preventing someone from recording a conventional video, taking it, then uploading it as of it was just filmed now? How about taking a fake video and recording it with the camera so it's still an unedited file of faked footage? -
2019-09-15 at 11:34 AM UTC
Originally posted by Rear Naked Joke Retard. Try to read this very carefully: what is preventing someone from recording a conventional video, taking it, then uploading it as of it was just filmed now? How about taking a fake video and recording it with the camera so it's still an unedited file of faked footage?
We're not talking some random idiot like you walking around recording shit.
CCTV and body cams clearly implies either government, or possibly private security organization, performing professional surveillance.
There is clearly going to be existing infrastructure and chain of custody that can also be tracked.
Try reading between the lines so you don't look like a complete asshat. -
2019-09-15 at 6:07 PM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks We're not talking some random idiot like you walking around recording shit.
CCTV and body cams clearly implies either government, or possibly private security organization, performing professional surveillance.
There is clearly going to be existing infrastructure and chain of custody that can also be tracked.
Try reading between the lines so you don't look like a complete asshat.
Listen, muckwit. Do you think either police or private security tapes are gonna be fucking deepfaked and re-entered into their records? Is your brain broken? You think the issue with police bodycams is video editing? It ain't. It's "malfunctions" and "obstructions". -
2019-09-15 at 7:06 PM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny what im looking for is a technology that can prove and verify the authencity of the footages taken by tying it to the very camera where the footages came from and has remain unaltered.
checksums can prove the integrity of files but not the source they came from.
Don't think you can do it. There's nothing I can do the make you trust that a video I say is authored by my camera really was. We could prove that it's my camera attesting to having captured a video, but you can't trust that I didn't just find a video and then have my camera attest in some way to having captured it, the reason being that you fundamentally can't trust my hardware to report that it did something, you have to assume I have control over the behavior of it.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-09-15 at 7:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Don't think you can do it. There's nothing I can do the make you trust that a video I say is authored by my camera really was. We could prove that it's my camera attesting to having captured a video, but you can't trust that I didn't just find a video and then have my camera attest in some way to having captured it, the reason being that you fundamentally can't trust my hardware to report that it did something, you have to assume I have control over the behavior of it.
That's a good point actually. I also thought, lol, what if i make a deep fake then take a 'trusted camera' and record the recording with that? -
2019-09-15 at 7:22 PM UTC
Originally posted by Rear Naked Joke Listen, muckwit. Do you think either police or private security tapes are gonna be fucking deepfaked and re-entered into their records? Is your brain broken? You think the issue with police bodycams is video editing? It ain't. It's "malfunctions" and "obstructions".
In Vinny's OP he talks about video tampering. Where the fuck did deepfakes even come into this?
Fucking troglodyte. -
2019-09-15 at 7:27 PM UTCDeepfakes aren't really technically "editing". It's creating something brand new and indistinguishable from an original video.
Deepfakes will not be solved by what Vinny is proposing, as like a dozen people have already pointed out.
I'm talking about the only potential use case for blockchain here. -
2019-09-15 at 8:05 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Don't think you can do it. There's nothing I can do the make you trust that a video I say is authored by my camera really was. We could prove that it's my camera attesting to having captured a video, but you can't trust that I didn't just find a video and then have my camera attest in some way to having captured it, the reason being that you fundamentally can't trust my hardware to report that it did something, you have to assume I have control over the behavior of it.
I do kinda wonder if it would be possible to engineer a whole new kind of camera with encrypted metadata built in that can't be altered by the end user. Basically, a camera designed specifically to be a trusted camera.
It could even be entirely cloud based - no USB connections or SD card slot.
Initiating a video could even require a handshake to even start the recording function.
I dunno, I feel like there have got to be ways to make a camera at least more trustable, for more critical applications like Vinny is talking about - not necessarily for your average person just looking to film their kids birthday party or their summer vacation. -
2019-09-15 at 8:43 PM UTC
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2019-09-15 at 9:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by Rear Naked Joke Even video tampering.
You could be right. I don't even really care necessarily about the police body cam situation.
I was just giving an example in which blockchain can accomplish something that might potentially be of value.
Constantly streaming video feeds from already at-least somewhat reputable entities can provide an additional layer of trust.
It solves a very specific business / real-world problem, but it is not a complete cure for malicious video manipulation of all kinds. -
2019-09-15 at 9:28 PM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks I do kinda wonder if it would be possible to engineer a whole new kind of camera with encrypted metadata built in that can't be altered by the end user. Basically, a camera designed specifically to be a trusted camera.
It could even be entirely cloud based - no USB connections or SD card slot.
Initiating a video could even require a handshake to even start the recording function.
I dunno, I feel like there have got to be ways to make a camera at least more trustable, for more critical applications like Vinny is talking about - not necessarily for your average person just looking to film their kids birthday party or their summer vacation.
More trustable, yeah. You should sign and upload video and keep your key on a separate chip and try to do all sorts of things to ensure the integrity of the software. Basically DRM for cameras. But fundamentally if the hardware is controlled by an untrusted party the best you can do is make it a big pain in the ass to tamper, you'll never make it provably impossible. -
2019-09-16 at 5:15 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Don't think you can do it. There's nothing I can do the make you trust that a video I say is authored by my camera really was. We could prove that it's my camera attesting to having captured a video, but you can't trust that I didn't just find a video and then have my camera attest in some way to having captured it, the reason being that you fundamentally can't trust my hardware to report that it did something, you have to assume I have control over the behavior of it.
which is why i'm saying maybe blockchain can be used to address this trust defiecency.
the cam can act like a wallet. -
2019-09-16 at 5:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sophie That's a good point actually. I also thought, lol, what if i make a deep fake then take a 'trusted camera' and record the recording with that?
with blochain tech you cant because it would reveal the last 'transaction' came from your PC, instead of a made in china 5g linked cctv. -
2019-09-16 at 5:20 PM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks I do kinda wonder if it would be possible to engineer a whole new kind of camera with encrypted metadata built in that can't be altered by the end user. Basically, a camera designed specifically to be a trusted camera.
It could even be entirely cloud based - no USB connections or SD card slot.
Initiating a video could even require a handshake to even start the recording function.
I dunno, I feel like there have got to be ways to make a camera at least more trustable, for more critical applications like Vinny is talking about - not necessarily for your average person just looking to film their kids birthday party or their summer vacation.
thats the point of this thread, to make trustable cameras cheap and readily available to the masses.
with blockhain technology. unless you have a better idea.
