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Give me one good reason why I should refer to transgender people by their preferred pronouns
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2019-04-03 at 7:58 PM UTCI don't believe I should tell lies about what I believe in simply to show a person respect. IRL I avoid using any pronouns at all if it's an issue. Done it before. I will use new names, though.
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2019-04-03 at 8 PM UTC
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2019-04-03 at 8:03 PM UTCI mean, I agree... but at the same time I don't like Mexicans. If every interaction I had, I called you a filthy spic... would it be a problem? Should I pull my punches and lie about how I feel about you by omission? Probably. Because it's the fundamentally decent way to behave. Similarly I wouldn't go around calling gay people faggots. Misgendering someone isn't exactly a 1:1 analogy here, but the philosophy behind not misgendering people is more or less the same - it's a slight tweak in the language you may want to use to avoid causing someone grief. Choosing not to make that tweak makes you an asshole. But you're free to be an asshole. Just don't act like you aren't an asshole just because you're being honest about how you feel.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2019-04-03 at 8:25 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS I mean, I agree… but at the same time I don't like Mexicans. If every interaction I had, I called you a filthy spic… would it be a problem? Should I pull my punches and lie about how I feel about you by omission? Probably. Because it's the fundamentally decent way to behave. Similarly I wouldn't go around calling gay people faggots. Misgendering someone isn't exactly a 1:1 analogy here, but the philosophy behind not misgendering people is more or less the same - it's a slight tweak in the language you may want to use to avoid causing someone grief. Choosing not to make that tweak makes you an asshole. But you're free to be an asshole. Just don't act like you aren't an asshole just because you're being honest about how you feel.
Very poor analogy, as you've already stated. Spic is a slur and insult no matter the situation, though I'm not saying I'm insulted by it every time it's used.
Calling somebody by the gender they were born as is not an insult, it is factual (imo.) If you referred to me as a dude, I would not be offended. If you referred to me as a Mexican, I would not be offended. If you referred to me as having a cute ass, I would not be offended.
What you have is a mental abnormality that makes you feel as if you are a woman instead of a man. But you are still a man. You have no ovaries, no vagina, none of that shit. You do not have any of the things which make you a woman. You are not a woman. You will never be a woman.
So why should I refer to you as something you are not? Respect doesn't really cover it. I don't refer to schizophrenics with a god complex as deities. I don't call ugly girls beautiful. I don't tell guys who think they're a woman that they're a woman.
In real life, when people try to tell me that they are things which they objectively are not, I simply don't address it. That's how I avoid being an asshole. Online, I don't really give a fuck. 90% of the time when I call you a dude it's just to annoy your scronaldo. 10% it's to maintain the troll. A lot of times I delete my 'he' and simply use 'HTS.'
I think it's actually less respectful to lie to you and call you a woman when I don't think you are one. I get that I'm a massive asshole online. But IRL I show my respect by omission of opinions to maintain both honesty and friendliness. Like I said, I've done it before where I just don't use pronouns at all. So that's where my question is. Not in: "should I say he" because I know it is an asshole move to repeatedly use "he" when somebody prefers otherwise. That's kind of the point.
My question is "Why should I use somebody's preferred pronoun?" Do you think it's disrespectful to simply NOT use any pronouns at all? -
2019-04-03 at 8:44 PM UTC
Originally posted by GGG Very poor analogy, as you've already stated. Spic is a slur and insult no matter the situation, though I'm not saying I'm insulted by it every time it's used.
You're arguing that it's not wrong to intentionally misgender people because you don't think it matters to show them that kind of respect. You're essentially arguing that it should be okay to disrespect trans people (aka insult them), so as weak as my analogy is it stands up to that particular critique. Intentionally misgendering people is always an insult. :/ -
2019-04-03 at 8:50 PM UTCYou identify as a human being, I see you as subhuman filth. Why is it wrong for me to intentionally call you and your family subhuman filth? They aren't white, so clearly they are. Herpaderp. I'm not an asshole, I'm just telling it like it is man.
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2019-04-03 at 8:53 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS You're arguing that it's not wrong to intentionally misgender people because you don't think it matters to show them that kind of respect. You're essentially arguing that it should be okay to disrespect trans people (aka insult them), so as weak as my analogy is it stands up to that particular critique. Intentionally misgendering people is always an insult. :/
You can't just regurgitate your opinion over and over like it's a fat gagging chode. Avoiding the use of pronouns is not misgendering. This thread is not about misgendering, which as I've stated, I don't do IRL. This thread is about actually using the preferred pronouns.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-04-03 at 8:54 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS You identify as a human being, I see you as subhuman filth. Why is it wrong for me to intentionally call you and your family subhuman filth? They aren't white, so clearly they are. Herpaderp. I'm not an asshole, I'm just telling it like it is man.
Pick a new analogy. This one doesn't work. -
2019-04-03 at 8:59 PM UTC
Originally posted by GGG Avoiding the use of pronouns is not misgendering.
This is not what I took from "not using preferred pronouns", which kinda tainted my opinion of what you were arguing for (when combined with the fact that you constantly misgender me). If you're just avoiding pronouns entirely, it's whatever. It's like me *not* calling you subhuman filth and just referring to you by your name. That's fine. My analogy is completely invalid. Shoulda just clarified that earlier instead of trying to shoot down my analogy with the whole "insult" line of reasoning, which totally compounded my confusion. -
2019-04-03 at 9:02 PM UTC
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2019-04-03 at 9:06 PM UTC"Misgendering"
What an abomination of a wordThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-04-03 at 9:11 PM UTC
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2019-04-03 at 9:12 PM UTCThat's what it said
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2019-04-03 at 9:17 PM UTC
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2019-04-03 at 9:24 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS This is not what I took from "not using preferred pronouns", which kinda tainted my opinion of what you were arguing for (when combined with the fact that you constantly misgender me). If you're just avoiding pronouns entirely, it's whatever. It's like me *not* calling you subhuman filth and just referring to you by your name. That's fine. My analogy is completely invalid. Shoulda just clarified that earlier instead of trying to shoot down my analogy with the whole "insult" line of reasoning, which totally compounded my confusion.
I understand your confusion at first, I didn't make it clear. But you obviously did not read my initial response to you, so you deserve to be insulted.
In your shitty analogy, you would be thinking shitty and insulting things about me even if you are not verbalizing it. I do not think shitty or insulting things over the fact that I consider you to be a man. You may take offense at it, but there is no offense or malice intended in simply having my opinion v.s. racism which is inherently malicious even if you keep your opinions to yourself.
I don't think it's inherently bad to have a psychological disorder such as yours. I'm bisexual and I also think that's a psychological disorder, as in 'out of the normal order of things.' Which it objectively is, and that's all I care about. Objectivity. Social constructs and conscious changing of language do not change the fact that you are a biological male, and will always and forever be a biological male. And until that changes, and you can objectively and wholly be turned into a woman with all her parts and X chromosomes, I will continue to believe in what I believe.
Then of course there's the next step where people go beyond respect and enter the delusional territory. -
2019-04-03 at 9:26 PM UTCYou asked for a good reason and 'to not come across as an asshole' I guess is a good reason, right? No. I dont know.
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2019-04-03 at 9:28 PM UTCOP is mad, because he doesn't have a dick in his mouth..
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2019-04-03 at 9:32 PM UTCMikey (are you projecting) again?
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2019-04-03 at 9:34 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ You asked for a good reason and 'to not come across as an asshole' I guess is a good reason, right? No. I dont know.
This has been addressed and if you read the posts you'd see that.
Misgendering = using a pronoun which is not preferred
What HTS wants = using pronoun which is preferred
What I do IRL = neither
My question is about why I should use the preferred pronouns, not why I shouldn't use the non-preferred pronouns. -
2019-04-03 at 9:37 PM UTC
