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The Yerkes–Dodson law
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2018-11-19 at 10:42 PM UTC
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2018-11-19 at 10:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS I get that, yeah. Mostly I was just trolling, because there is something about wanting to "increase your efficiency" that sounds wrong to me. Like, my gut reaction to that sentiment is to give you a pat on the head for being a good slave. You know? 🙃
Like if you work a 9-5, all increased efficiency is gonna do is get you to middle management. You're just going to be doing more work in the same amount of time, and not freeing up anything for yourself.
Actually, it's funny you posted that because I actually read an article on some blog the other day arguing about pretty much the same idea - that our obsession with efficiency can actually be detrimental.
A good way to complement any self-improvement plan so as to truly achieve meaningfulness, is to follow the principles of mindfulness. There are tons of books out there by Buddhist monks, self-help gurus, and psychiatrists and psychologists, that delve into this wonderful part of life.
So the goal is not just GET MORE DONE.
It also includes ENJOY MORE. -
2018-11-20 at 7:39 AM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks My goal of being hyper-efficicent so that I can have more time to do the things I truly want to do: appreciate art and nature and beauty in the world, contemplate philosophical questions, and getting fucked up with the homies.
beem there, done that.
did not and will not give your life additional meanings to live for, in fact it leaves less meanings. -
2018-11-20 at 8:03 AM UTCIn development/CS there's this folk concept known as the blamer peak which is basically Yerkes–Dodson as applied to alcohol and programming. Not really useful, but it's a phrase you see come up and kind of a fun piece of culture.
Also "take a bunch of meth" isn't really what you should get out of Yerkes–Dodson, since for "complex" tasks they found over stimulation harms performance.
From personal experience wrt programming: noots are a meme, don't waste your time. Low, but not micro, dose stimulants are great. *afinils aren't bad but only because they're basically stimulants, I don't really consider them "nootropics" as distinct from stims. If you can manage side effects and addiction risks of stimulants that's the ticket. Alcohol helps work through tedium but I'm a heavy drinker and my response has changed over time. Long term there doesn't seem to be any real benefit besides feeling slightly better while performing at exactly the same level. Benzos are like a straight debuff. Psychedelic microdosing is not helpful at all, but based on reports I've heard from people I think I may have an atypical response to microdosed psychedelics.
Also from personal experience but also objective fact as someone who's spent some time in professional industry programming: 99% of "programming methodology" stuff is bullshit. Kanban is a meme-generalization of todo lists. I have this elaborate kanban system rigged up to jira at work and to this day I just keep a todo list and reconcile it with the stupid task cards at the end of the day to keep the PM for bitching at me. If you name a piece of "methodology" I'll tell you how it's a scheme devised by vampire consultants to extend their parasitic existence.
Which is not to say it's wrong to try out that kind of thing, I guess if you try out kanban or whatever else and find it's actually useful then more power to you. My experience has just been that high performers tend to just do their thing, and no amount of methodology or "time management" or anything other than simple experience/practice will turn low performers into high performers. In general any 30 minutes spent reading some kind of life-hack time management thing is worth less than 30 minutes of sitting down practicing and/or working at the thing you're trying to do, even amortized over a lifetime.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-11-20 at 9:32 AM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny beem there, done that.
did not and will not give your life additional meanings to live for, in fact it leaves less meanings.
I also beem'd there (Scotty?).
I actually do find more meaning in my life now that I enjoy my job.
I like the people I work with and for.
I like that I produce things that millions of users around the world will eventually actually use to improve their day-to-day-lives.
And the very act of research, learning, problem-solving, and trial-and-error, that basically constitute what software development is, is intrinsically enjoyable to me.
You just have to find the types of tasks that drive you intrinsically, and then find careers that incorporate those tasks/skills. -
2018-11-20 at 9:35 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Which is not to say it's wrong to try out that kind of thing, I guess if you try out kanban or whatever else and find it's actually useful then more power to you. My experience has just been that high performers tend to just do their thing, and no amount of methodology or "time management" or anything other than simple experience/practice will turn low performers into high performers. In general any 30 minutes spent reading some kind of life-hack time management thing is worth less than 30 minutes of sitting down practicing and/or working at the thing you're trying to do, even amortized over a lifetime.
This is a really good point due to the fact that it rarely results in actual application.
There are some tried-and-trued methodologies, programming paradigms, and just ways of working in general, that show tremendous results when applied.
I've read so many books, seen so any YouTube videos, and read all too many blog posts on productivity.
And if it ain't kickin' in, then it's like buying a gym membership and never using it.
At the end of the day, though, it's all about finding that point of diminishing returns on researching productivity hacks. -
2018-11-20 at 9:40 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny In development/CS there's this folk concept known as the blamer peak which is basically Yerkes–Dodson as applied to alcohol and programming. Not really useful, but it's a phrase you see come up and kind of a fun piece of culture.
Also "take a bunch of meth" isn't really what you should get out of Yerkes–Dodson, since for "complex" tasks they found over stimulation harms performance.
From personal experience wrt programming: noots are a meme, don't waste your time. Low, but not micro, dose stimulants are great. *afinils aren't bad but only because they're basically stimulants, I don't really consider them "nootropics" as distinct from stims. If you can manage side effects and addiction risks of stimulants that's the ticket. Alcohol helps work through tedium but I'm a heavy drinker and my response has changed over time. Long term there doesn't seem to be any real benefit besides feeling slightly better while performing at exactly the same level. Benzos are like a straight debuff. Psychedelic microdosing is not helpful at all, but based on reports I've heard from people I think I may have an atypical response to microdosed psychedelics.
I've been noticing more and more over the past few days that nootropics, especially when I so boldly and liberally expand the category to include drugs like alcohol, meth, and hallucinogens, there is a definite set of distraction elements that have unintended consequences.
That being said, though, this is all about experimentation. There will be things that don't out all so well, and some might only work effectively under the right preconditions.
For example, if you have writer's block, it might actually be reasonable to get some shrooms or LSD and go for a walk in the woods.
But if you're just trying marginally increase day-to-day creativity, microdosing does not seem to be all it's played out to be. -
2018-11-20 at 9:47 AM UTCYeah dude, I'm all about taking normal to large doses of psychedelic drugs as just a really cool experience or possibly for inspiration for something. When I heard about microsoding I thought "this has got to be awesome", like it sounds like something that could be really useful. But every time I try it, it's just garbage. Either I just feel come up effects without any real psychedelia, or I feel nothing at all. At best it's baseline and at worst it's distracting muscle tension and nausea. I really wanted it to work, but it's just like blehhhhh for four hours with zero noticeable benefit, at least for me.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-11-20 at 9:51 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny From personal experience wrt programming: noots are a meme, don't waste your time. Low, but not micro, dose stimulants are great. *afinils aren't bad but only because they're basically stimulants, I don't really consider them "nootropics" as distinct from stims. If you can manage side effects and addiction risks of stimulants that's the ticket. Alcohol helps work through tedium but I'm a heavy drinker and my response has changed over time. Long term there doesn't seem to be any real benefit besides feeling slightly better while performing at exactly the same level. Benzos are like a straight debuff. Psychedelic microdosing is not helpful at all, but based on reports I've heard from people I think I may have an atypical response to microdosed psychedelics.
I agree with drawing a distinction between classic "cognition-enhancing" nootropics and wakefulness inducing ones.
One paper I wrote (undergrad, not published) was about how Long-Term Potentiation can be accelerated through stimulation of AMPA receptors, and I'll never forget the whole metaphor of an interconnected graph of knowledge (like the standard graph data structure), and that by pharmacologically increasing those pathways it seems entirely reasonable that there can be broad applications in educational settings.
Especially, when those educational settings are hands-on experience. -
2018-11-20 at 9:53 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Yeah dude, I'm all about taking normal to large doses of psychedelic drugs as just a really cool experience or possibly for inspiration for something. When I heard about microsoding I thought "this has got to be awesome", like it sounds like something that could be really useful. But every time I try it, it's just garbage. Either I just feel come up effects without any real psychedelia, or I feel nothing at all. At best it's baseline and at worst it's distracting muscle tension and nausea. I really wanted it to work, but it's just like blehhhhh for four hours with zero noticeable benefit, at least for me.
Yeah that was pretty much my exact reaction to the whole ordeal.
So with being said, throughout this thread I plan to be skeptical, even of my own inferences and ideas, because I really do want to find what works. -
2018-11-20 at 11:12 AM UTC
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2018-11-20 at 11:20 AM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny lies. you wouldnt like it anymore once you have to pay in order to get to do your job.
The only reason I would be upset about that is because I wouldn't be able to pay the bills without a salary.
I really do, believe it or not (few do because it seems like a pipe dream or a mirage), instrincically enjoy my job.
If a communist society were to make it's way into the world, and I could be a programmer, then I could actually live with communism.
But at the end of the day, I'm not a commie. This example just exemplifies that it is possible to find meaning in one's work. -
2018-11-20 at 11:31 AM UTC
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2018-11-20 at 11:38 AM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny you can take another job that pays to pay for the job that takes.
So you mean, like, do another job altogether that I don't like just so I can pay to do a job I do like?
That seems a tad ridiculous.
If you're trying to argue against the whole idea that we are all only the means of production (cogs in the machine, if you will), let me stop you right there.
I do not intrinsically enjoy my job in the same was as I intrinsically enjoy, say, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
But having to work is pretty much mandatory in a functioning society, so if you can find a job that has 80% intrinsic value (joy in the job itself) as well as 20% extrinsic value (i.e. paycheques), then why the fuck not? -
2018-11-20 at 11:44 AM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-11-20 at 11:49 AM UTC
Originally posted by Odigo Messenger - Now With Free 911 Service http://www.balmerpeakcalculator.com/
Oh lol.
As cool as it is that that exists, I straight up lack the self-control to moderate my drinking in such a precise fashion. -
2018-11-20 at 12:01 PM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks As cool as it is that that exists, I straight up lack the self-control to moderate my drinking in such a precise fashion.
Try it, it's a joke.
I felt like hammered dogshit yesterday, but realised I forgot to take coffee or anything in the morning. I decided to just do without. By evening I wound up feeling super depressed (I have major problems with that) and had to take a bromazepam, which really helped.
Meth and the like make me able focus, but I don't find them "fun" at all - they makes me cranky. Maybe I have ADD or something, I wish I could get some stimulant like ritalin or adderall prescribed. -
2018-11-20 at 12:43 PM UTC
Originally posted by Odigo Messenger - Now With Free 911 Service Try it, it's a joke.
I felt like hammered dogshit yesterday, but realised I forgot to take coffee or anything in the morning. I decided to just do without. By evening I wound up feeling super depressed (I have major problems with that) and had to take a bromazepam, which really helped.
Meth and the like make me able focus, but I don't find them "fun" at all - they makes me cranky. Maybe I have ADD or something, I wish I could get some stimulant like ritalin or adderall prescribed.
I can personally attest to Modafinil as a focusing/wakefulness drug that isn't quite as intense as most stimulants.
I have no idea if you can even get it prescribed, but I have bought some quite easily off of the deep web markets.
It's all the productivity, none of the euphoria.
That may sound boring or lame, but in retrospect, it makes perfect sense to separate those two factors out.
Euphoria can lead to procrastination (e.g.: "I could feel slightly better right now if I took another hit."... 5 minutes later... Same thoughts... ad infinitum). -
2018-11-20 at 7:20 PM UTC
Originally posted by gadzooks So you mean, like, do another job altogether that I don't like just so I can pay to do a job I do like?
That seems a tad ridiculous.
If you're trying to argue against the whole idea that we are all only the means of production (cogs in the machine, if you will), let me stop you right there.
I do not intrinsically enjoy my job in the same was as I intrinsically enjoy, say, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
But having to work is pretty much mandatory in a functioning society, so if you can find a job that has 80% intrinsic value (joy in the job itself) as well as 20% extrinsic value (i.e. paycheques), then why the fuck not?
idk, maybe our definition of 'enjoy' differ.
to me, something thats enjoyable is a something you would spend your cold hard earned cashes on ... like prostitutes or a sports car or bike.
maybe what you have there isnt really a job you enjoy but a job thats tolerable to you, but then im spiritually a nigger and have strong aversion to work.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-11-20 at 11:56 PM UTC
Originally posted by vindicktive vinny idk, maybe our definition of 'enjoy' differ.
to me, something thats enjoyable is a something you would spend your cold hard earned cashes on … like prostitutes or a sports car or bike.
maybe what you have there isnt really a job you enjoy but a job thats tolerable to you, but then im spiritually a nigger and have strong aversion to work.
I really like the way you put that for some reason.
Yeah, technically you could argue that my job is intrinsically enjoyable insofar as it is something I can very easily tolerate.
See, I would still write software even if I wasn't getting paid. I have a lot of hobby projects. But they don't quite pay the bills.
Therefore, you have to find whatever overlapping space within that Venn diagram between "stuff you like to do" and "stuff you can get paid for".
I consider myself blessed and genuinely grateful in life that I have been able to find something with such a large overlap.
