User Controls
Edward Snowden
-
2018-07-06 at 7:57 PM UTC
-
2018-07-06 at 7:57 PM UTC
-
2018-07-06 at 7:58 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Nothing. I just said they don't exist…just as a god doesn't. I understand the human construct but they don't really exist.
Any right you think you have can be taken from you at any time.
"Nothing exists because it's just a concept"
This universe could be interpreted in any number of ways.
It's dangerous and futile to disregard something just because it can be defined as a "concept". -
2018-07-06 at 7:58 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Nothing. I just said they don't exist…just as a god doesn't.
"Nothing" isn't a very good description of either gods nor rights, even if you think they don't exist. I don't think unicorns exist, but I can describe some of their properties like they're horses with horns.
What I'm asking is what you think it means when someone says "we have a fundamental right to privacy". Maybe you think no such right actually exists, but what do you think rights would be if they did exist? -
2018-07-06 at 8 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny "Nothing" isn't a very good description of either gods nor rights, even if you think they don't exist. I don't think unicorns exist, but I can describe some of their properties like they're horses with horns.
What I'm asking is what you think it means when someone says "we have a fundamental right to privacy". Maybe you think no such right actually exists, but what do you think a rights would be if they did exist?
They are agreements...that's it...but agreements can be broken at any time. A stronger force can take any agreements made by your little troop at any time...or on an individual level a bullet in the head removes all your rights too...including your assumed right to life.
They are fantasy much like your unicorn. -
2018-07-06 at 8:10 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson They are agreements…that's it…but agreements can be broken at any time. A stronger force can take any agreements made by your little troop at any time…or on an individual level a bullet in the head removes all your rights too…including your assumed right to life.
They are fantasy much like your unicorn.
I don't think you understand what people mean when they talk about rights. Rights, especially rights we consider "fundamental human rights" are not part of an agreement. When one says "we have a fundamental human right to X" there is no need to have agreed to receive X or to avoid infringing on the right of others to X. Our rights as American citizens are not the result of an agreement between us and the state either, as no natural citizen has ever agreed to receive their rights.
You're confusing the question "is it possible for a right to be infringed on?" with the question "do rights exist?". These are very different things.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-07-06 at 8:17 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny I don't think you understand what people mean when they talk about rights.
I don't think you do...your average human thinks a right is an entitlement..it's not it's an agreement. Simple stating something is a fundamental right doesn't mean shit if others don't agree with it and then to those that don't agree..well it's not a right.
Again your perceived rights are simply agreements made by your corner of society...and again they can be taken from you at any time.
Just like religion it's there to comfort the dumb masses and make them feel special...MOON PERSONs love the concept...they'll eventually learn though.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-07-06 at 8:26 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson I don't think you do…your average human thinks a right is an entitlement..it's not it's an agreement.
Why? If nearly everybody but you uses the term "right" to mean entitlement, it kinda seems like that's what it means. You're arguing semantics, and you're not doing it very well since like, you know, common usage is how words are defined. -
2018-07-06 at 8:34 PM UTCI guess you heard the Miranda Rights.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an ..."
I find this statement funny.
Because if you do the reverse actually speaking of a crime with proof that was committed against the people of the state there's more of a chance you'll lose all rights and in places like N Korea even your life. So, do rights actually exist...some lawyers say no. In a court manipulation of law gives you the end result and getting true justice is rare. -
2018-07-06 at 9:17 PM UTCThe only way the US economy will truly collapse is if theyre is a massive quake in San Francisco (like a 9 and shallow and on the San Andreas just off the coast next to SF like the 1906 but bigger than 06)
That would destroy both US hubs of Tech and Biotech (the city of San Bruno next to SFO is the new Biotech with 11 new companies going in with 11 new campus being built right now)
this is a huge percentage of Money and will affect New York and Chicago stock exchange and banks located in NYC.
at around the time China is starting to surpass us in building up its Navy and weapons systems. One of these Happy Coincidence (in the sense for the chinese)
And China going.. remember that time back around 2007 when you were showing force to protect Thaiwan? yeah.. go fuck yourself. we're not bailing you out this time.
So be nice to China, Y'all! -
2018-07-06 at 9:28 PM UTCPrivacy is an outdated concept. I would like if everyone was monitored at all times. Think about how much better things would be if you could leave your car or your front door unlocked, or leave your wallet lying on a table in a restaurant while you go to the bathroom, where no one could drunk drive or speed, and where almost all crimes could be solved in an hour or two.
The NSA achieves very little considering its large budget, and that is the sole basis I can imagine criticising it on. -
2018-07-06 at 9:31 PM UTC
Originally posted by Cootehill Privacy is an outdated concept. I would like if everyone was monitored at all times. Think about how much better things would be if you could leave your car or your front door unlocked, or leave your wallet lying on a table in a restaurant while you go to the bathroom, where no one could drunk drive or speed, and where almost all crimes could be solved in an hour or two.
The NSA achieves very little considering its large budget, and that is the sole basis I can imagine criticising it on.
brave new world. we monitor ourselves (collectivly as a society) over 1984s theme.
I would like that too. that way, you can't get blamed for shit or be suspected of shit for long. "It's him{her}.. I know it's him.. oh.. this just in.. not him (her)"
but do you want to be monitored for beating off or some piece of shit hired for 17 an hour to watch your children while he's taking screen shots for later private time or just knowing what kind of porn you like.. even if it isn't sick CP but say (insert here) other shit people may laugh at. WELL DO YOU, SIR?? -
2018-07-06 at 9:32 PM UTC
Originally posted by Cootehill Privacy is an outdated concept. I would like if everyone was monitored at all times. Think about how much better things would be if you could leave your car or your front door unlocked, or leave your wallet lying on a table in a restaurant while you go to the bathroom, where no one could drunk drive or speed, and where almost all crimes could be solved in an hour or two.
The NSA achieves very little considering its large budget, and that is the sole basis I can imagine criticising it on.
OVERSOCIALIZATION
24. Psychologists use the term “socialization” to designate the process by which children are trained to think and act as society demands. A person is said to be well socialized if he believes in and obeys the moral code of his society and fits in well as a functioning part of that society. It may seem senseless to say that many leftists are oversocialized, since the leftist is perceived as a rebel. Nevertheless, the position can be defended. Many leftists are not such rebels as they seem.
25. The moral code of our society is so demanding that no one can think, feel and act in a completely moral way. For example, we are not supposed to hate anyone, yet almost everyone hates somebody at some time or other, whether he admits it to himself or not. Some people are so highly socialized that the attempt to think, feel and act morally imposes a severe burden on them. In order to avoid feelings of guilt, they continually have to deceive themselves about their own motives and find moral explanations for feelings and actions that in reality have a non-moral origin. We use the term “oversocialized” to describe such people. [2]
26. Oversocialization can lead to low self-esteem, a sense of powerlessness, defeatism, guilt, etc. One of the most important means by which our society socializes children is by making them feel ashamed of behavior or speech that is contrary to society’s expectations. If this is overdone, or if a particular child is especially susceptible to such feelings, he ends by feeling ashamed of HIMSELF. Moreover the thought and the behavior of the oversocialized person are more restricted by society’s expectations than are those of the lightly socialized person. The majority of people engage in a significant amount of naughty behavior. They lie, they commit petty thefts, they break traffic laws, they goof off at work, they hate someone, they say spiteful things or they use some underhanded trick to get ahead of the other guy. The oversocialized person cannot do these things, or if he does do them he generates in himself a sense of shame and self-hatred. The oversocialized person cannot even experience, without guilt, thoughts or feelings that are contrary to the accepted morality; he cannot think “unclean” thoughts. And socialization is not just a matter of morality; we are socialized to conform to many norms of behavior that do not fall under the heading of morality. Thus the oversocialized person is kept on a psychological leash and spends his life running on rails that society has laid down for him. In many oversocialized people this results in a sense of constraint and powerlessness that can be a severe hardship. We suggest that oversocialization is among the more serious cruelties that human beings inflict on one another.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-07-06 at 9:34 PM UTC
-
2018-07-06 at 9:39 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny OVERSOCIALIZATION
24. Psychologists use the term “socialization” to designate the process by which children are trained to think and act as society demands. A person is said to be well socialized if he believes in and obeys the moral code of his society and fits in well as a functioning part of that society. It may seem senseless to say that many leftists are oversocialized, since the leftist is perceived as a rebel. Nevertheless, the position can be defended. Many leftists are not such rebels as they seem.
25. The moral code of our society is so demanding that no one can think, feel and act in a completely moral way. For example, we are not supposed to hate anyone, yet almost everyone hates somebody at some time or other, whether he admits it to himself or not. Some people are so highly socialized that the attempt to think, feel and act morally imposes a severe burden on them. In order to avoid feelings of guilt, they continually have to deceive themselves about their own motives and find moral explanations for feelings and actions that in reality have a non-moral origin. We use the term “oversocialized” to describe such people. [2]
26. Oversocialization can lead to low self-esteem, a sense of powerlessness, defeatism, guilt, etc. One of the most important means by which our society socializes children is by making them feel ashamed of behavior or speech that is contrary to society’s expectations. If this is overdone, or if a particular child is especially susceptible to such feelings, he ends by feeling ashamed of HIMSELF. Moreover the thought and the behavior of the oversocialized person are more restricted by society’s expectations than are those of the lightly socialized person. The majority of people engage in a significant amount of naughty behavior. They lie, they commit petty thefts, they break traffic laws, they goof off at work, they hate someone, they say spiteful things or they use some underhanded trick to get ahead of the other guy. The oversocialized person cannot do these things, or if he does do them he generates in himself a sense of shame and self-hatred. The oversocialized person cannot even experience, without guilt, thoughts or feelings that are contrary to the accepted morality; he cannot think “unclean” thoughts. And socialization is not just a matter of morality; we are socialized to conform to many norms of behavior that do not fall under the heading of morality. Thus the oversocialized person is kept on a psychological leash and spends his life running on rails that society has laid down for him. In many oversocialized people this results in a sense of constraint and powerlessness that can be a severe hardship. We suggest that oversocialization is among the more serious cruelties that human beings inflict on one another.
That's a weak sauce response, and doesn't address my contention. If anything Uncle Ted was talking about people like you here - lefties.
Something to do with "watched over by machines of loving grace" would be more relevant, but still - the fact is that I don't want my car window broken when I'm hiking or my laptop stolen while I'm taking a piss has nothing to do with my politics.
You privacy absolutists are responsible for most petty crime in society, and have a lot of blood on your hands. -
2018-07-06 at 9:51 PM UTC
Originally posted by Cootehill Something to do with "watched over by machines of loving grace" would be more relevant, but still - the fact is that I don't want my car window broken when I'm hiking or my laptop stolen while I'm taking a piss has nothing to do with my politics..
It's everything to do with politics when you take up the position that "privacy is an outdated concept". The ideas of surveillance and socialization are intimately related: surveillance is the mechanism by which we detect and punish deviance. I don't think anyone here as presented a position that can be characterized as "absolutist" except you. Some surveillance measures are justified, I have no problem with a beat cop monitoring a public area or search of private property being conducted with a warrant in a system where probable cause actually means something.
It's you who has proposed constant monitoring without cause. You realize even Bentham only proposed the panopticon as something for criminals right?The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-07-06 at 9:51 PM UTCSee what I mean
-
2018-07-06 at 9:56 PM UTCwhat do you want from me again?
-
2018-07-06 at 9:58 PM UTC
-
2018-07-06 at 10:18 PM UTC
Originally posted by Cootehill Don't you keep logs?
I do, the closest thing to personal information they contain is IP addresses which can not be resolved to a person without a warrant (well that or the NSA's illegal backdoor spying) which I don't disclose to any third party. I think this is a far cry from "everyone being monitored at all times".
