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Niggas in Space > Oh the Humanities! > We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
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We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat

  1. 2018-06-07 at 6:51 PM UTC
    #1361
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    Math can’t really be argued though because the answer is the same whether you understand it or not.
  2. 2018-06-07 at 6:53 PM UTC
    #1362
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by ohfralala Math can’t really be argued though because the answer is the same whether you understand it or not.

    yeah, on that same note morality isn't necessarily relative just because people interpret it differently
  3. 2018-06-07 at 6:54 PM UTC
    #1363
    -SpectraL coward [the spuriously bluish-lilac bushman]
    Originally posted by aldra yeah, on that same note morality isn't necessarily relative just because people interpret it differently

    But there is "inalienable morality" if you believe in a Creator of purpose.
  4. 2018-06-07 at 6:58 PM UTC
    #1364
    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]
    Originally posted by ohfralala I agree with morality being relative. What factor (or factors), then, would you use to determine what is best for us? Would you only consider necessary variables for survival with zero regard for emotional needs/facets.

    And at that point would you say meat is absolutely necessary for survival?

    I dont know. Depends on what we want to achieve I guess. If "emotional contentment" is a goal we want I think it could be ppssible to achieve it without needing to involve morality.

    I don't think meat is absolutely necessary for survival.

    Originally posted by aldra math isn't absolute because some people can't add

    Is math absolute? I always though math was more or less an approximation of reality. Like, that why numbers like PI continue on and on forever, which is why we only use the significant digits to make approximations.
  5. 2018-06-07 at 7:01 PM UTC
    #1365
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by Obbe Is math absolute? I always though math was more or less an approximation of reality. Like, that why numbers like PI continue on and on forever, which is why we only use the significant digits to make approximations.

    I don't know about pi; I was under the impression that it's precise value was 22/7 and just can't be expressed as a single number because it's irrational but apparently that's not the case
  6. 2018-06-07 at 7:15 PM UTC
    #1366
    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]
    Originally posted by aldra I don't know about pi; I was under the impression that it's precise value was 22/7 and just can't be expressed as a single number because it's irrational but apparently that's not the case

    I don't know. Do you believe morality is absolute? I think there are a lot of reasons to believe it is relative. Don't really have the time or desire to write a huge post about it. But, for example, different parts of the world developed different ideas about what is and is not moral. But I don't think any culture developed different ideas about math. 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in any culture I have heard of. Do you really think it is accurate to compare morality to math?
  7. 2018-06-07 at 7:15 PM UTC
    #1367
    -SpectraL coward [the spuriously bluish-lilac bushman]
    The ancient manuscripts record that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were offered the finest meats during their long stay of years as the King's guests, but they politely refused and requested fruits and vegetables instead. The document chronicles how eventually the three become the strongest and fittest and mightiest men in the King's entire palace. The King and his men were amazed.
  8. 2018-06-07 at 7:19 PM UTC
    #1368
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by Obbe I don't know. Do you believe morality is absolute? I think there are a lot of reasons to believe it is relative. Don't really have the time or desire to write a huge post about it. But, for example, different parts of the world developed different ideas about what is and is not moral. But I don't think any culture developed different ideas about math. 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in any culture I have heard of. Do you really think it is accurate to compare morality to math?

    my point was only that people disagreeing on something doesn't mean that they're all right.

    as it stands morality is used and shaped as a tool for social cohesion, differently for different societies, but yes I believe there's an absolute baseline. there's no way to prove or disprove it though so I don't think it's really worth discussing
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  9. 2018-06-07 at 7:28 PM UTC
    #1369
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    Originally posted by aldra I don't know about pi; I was under the impression that it's precise value was 22/7

    i think thats like saying your precise value is your father came in your mother.
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  10. 2018-06-07 at 7:32 PM UTC
    #1370
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    Originally posted by aldra yeah, on that same note morality isn't necessarily relative just because people interpret it differently

    Being able to arrive at different conclusions through various interpretations, with there being no previous concrete answers, means that something is not absolute, therefore relative.

    Coming up with a wrong answer to a math problem just means you don’t know how to do the math.
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  11. 2018-06-07 at 7:33 PM UTC
    #1371
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    So vegans... what do you do about insects in your house? Do you also not kill them?
  12. 2018-06-07 at 7:36 PM UTC
    #1372
    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]
    Originally posted by aldra my point was only that people disagreeing on something doesn't mean that they're all right.

    as it stands morality is used and shaped as a tool for social cohesion, differently for different societies, but yes I believe there's an absolute baseline. there's no way to prove or disprove it though so I don't think it's really worth discussing

    Are the only things "worth" discussing things which we can prove or disprove? I don't know if everyone would agree with that.

    MmQ attempted to establish a baseline for morality by asking me if baby torture is ever morally acceptable, which some does appear to be accepted in some cultures (nonconsenual circumcision). Maybe those cultures are just "wrong" or maybe there is no baseline and morality is relative. If it's impossible for us to know, why not just treat morality as relative?
    The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
  13. 2018-06-07 at 7:41 PM UTC
    #1373
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by Obbe Are the only things "worth" discussing things which we can prove or disprove?

    for me

    MmQ attempted to establish a baseline for morality by asking me if baby torture is ever morally acceptable, which some does appear to be accepted in some cultures (nonconsenual circumcision). Maybe those cultures are just "wrong" or maybe there is no baseline and morality is relative. If it's impossible for us to know, why not just treat morality as relative?

    treat it how you want

    I wouldn't call circumcision torture though, mistreatment or maybe mutilation but there's no real intent to harm
  14. 2018-06-07 at 7:42 PM UTC
    #1374
    Obbe Alan What? [annoy my right-angled speediness]
    Originally posted by aldra for me



    treat it how you want

    I wouldn't call circumcision torture though, mistreatment or maybe mutilation but there's no real intent to harm

    Call it how you want... I think that means it's relative.
  15. 2018-06-07 at 7:42 PM UTC
    #1375
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Originally posted by benny vader i think thats like saying your precise value is your father came in your mother.

    no, 5 and 10/2 are two representations of the same number

    I already said I was wrong about pi in that regard
  16. 2018-06-07 at 7:47 PM UTC
    #1376
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    Originally posted by aldra I wouldn't call circumcision torture though, mistreatment or maybe mutilation but there's no real intent to harm

    how would you like to get circumcised against your will ???

    sans anesthetics ???
    The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
  17. 2018-06-07 at 7:50 PM UTC
    #1377
    benny vader YELLOW GHOST
    Originally posted by aldra no, 5 and 10/2 are two representations of the same number

    I already said I was wrong about pi in that regard

    is it wrong to think or say that you and that time your father came in your mother two representations of the same event / product ???
    The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
  18. 2018-06-07 at 8:52 PM UTC
    #1378
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    Originally posted by Lanny OK, so let's suppose Joe Psychopath happens upon a healthy looking child who's like, IDK, 4 or 5 or something. An age before they can appreciate the idea of a social contract. Joe tortures the child inflicting a lot of pain a maiming them for life. Joe goes on his way thinking he's done a good job of ruining or significantly degrading the child's life.

    But there's a twist: unbeknownst to anyone, the child has a rare heart condition that's going to cause him to die in a few months or years. The universe is, per your assumption, deterministic meaning the child will die inevitably. The child's person also never extends forwards far enough to participate in a social contract and thus never had potential to do so.

    In such a case, under your model, we seem committed to say Joe Psychopath did nothing wrong as the temporally extended child is not morally considerable. Now of course we can't say he was justified in torturing the child as he had no way to know that the child was not morally considerable, but we would seem to have to say he serendipitously avoided doing wrong by harming a morally irrelevant being.

    So this is the exact problem I foresaw in my last post, and that's why I asked that we just discuss the standard "potential" argument, because the explanation I gave is more of an advancement of that position. This does not pose any challenge to my moral system.

    The tl;dr answer (if you don't want to do it that way), is that if JP knew this for sure, and believes that if the situation was reversed, he himself would have no right to life as the doomed child, them I don't see any moral problem with JP's actions. The fact is, the information available to one does matter in one's moral considerations: it is what makes the difference between an act of ignorance or malice. Me giving money to a child in Africa might cause a butterfly effect* that does bad shit, but that doesn't factor into my moral considerations.
  19. 2018-06-07 at 9:38 PM UTC
    #1379
    joerell African Astronaut [twine our circinate supersymmetry]
    They once did a study on pro cyclists and found that pure vegetarians were the least fit unable to train and race. Your best bet is to have a balanced diet and remove all junk fod including all unnecessary additives. Plus no drugs, smoking or hard drinking. Still you can get ill due to environmental factors and your chances of a healthier life are only slightly better depending on genetics and makeup of individuals. Most veggies grown now also have some contamination and pollution doesn't help. Mercury free fish are almost non existant and even water used to clean vegatables can leave impurities or residue where time for shipping can be crucial. A small town outside of Rome has the longest living residents and it's all related to working hard, eating traditional foods of the ethnic group, better traditional farming methods, reducing stress and having fun in your life.
    The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
  20. 2018-06-07 at 10:15 PM UTC
    #1380
    joerell African Astronaut [twine our circinate supersymmetry]
    If there was a block feature everyone could enjoy removing him from sight. He'd probably start crying or kill himself. His medications must be extreme or destined to live in a psych ward very soon.
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