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Wait, so is global warming actually real?
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2018-03-08 at 1:21 PM UTCIssue313 why do you care about this stuff
do you genuinely think it has an impact on your existence -
2018-03-19 at 4:44 AM UTCIt's real and I'm pretty sure we're past the point of no return. Even if every country met it's emission goals slated for 2050 we'd still be heading towards this trainwreck. The government needs to put aside funds for ocean desalination facilities if places like LA are going to survive. They also need to put funds aside for building levees around cities like NYC and Boston, and having a fund to buyout people's homes and remove all toxic materials that the ocean will sweep up in places like Florida and the Carolinas.
TL;DR: If you're in favor of small government and defunding federal agencies you're fucking shortsighted and retarded for what's coming up in the next 50-100 years with rising sealevels and droughts. No companies will fill the void in an efficient or moral manner and all you libertarians need to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. -
2018-03-19 at 4:51 AM UTCBut.. The Republicans are the ones defunding federal agencies and pushing for small government. It's kind of the backbone of the republican ideology.
The libertarians (in the political sense, not the philosophical sense) are the ones pushing to fight the global warming that is undoubtedly man made. -
2018-03-19 at 5:07 AM UTC
Originally posted by 杀死所有的白魔鬼 But.. The Republicans are the ones defunding federal agencies and pushing for small government. It's kind of the backbone of the republican ideology.
The libertarians (in the political sense, not the philosophical sense) are the ones pushing to fight the global warming that is undoubtedly man made.
Republicans only starting doing this after Libertarian ideology was pushed into the mainstream by the elite class. If you look at the history of the Republican party they only started doing this aggressively since the mid 80s. Liberal libertarianism as a whole was manufactured towards its current state by people like the Kochs who established institutions such as the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation. Give the book Dark Money a read. It'll give you some insight on how libertarianism and the Republican party as we know it today in America came to be.
As far as libertarians being in favor of fighting global warming, what's their plan? I know a ton of libertarians irl who recognize there's a problem but are still against the government doing anything to stop it. What's the libertarian stance on global warming curbing and future disaster relief?
And even if they are for fighting global warming (which we should still do) according to trends we're already fucked and should be looking towards future disaster relief and preventative infrastructure projects which would take heavy government involvement to solve. -
2018-03-19 at 5:16 AM UTCRepublicans are not full libertarians in the philosophical sense. (and they sure aren't political libertarian) Ban gay marriage. War on drugs. Etc. But then on the other hand, they want states to have more power and they want a more pure capitalist market.
Politically, libertarians are the left wing, yeah? They want the government to do more. More for Healthcare. More for the environment. More gun control (though i think the whole THEY'RE TAKING OUR GUNS thing is overstated) Basically, the left wants more regulation and intervention as a whole, besides the whole imperialist thing we've got going on.
I don't know any lefties who don't want the government to act on global warming. Seems like that's all on the right. Every Democrat that ran within the last 10 years has heavily pushed on this issue. -
2018-03-19 at 5:29 AM UTCWhen I say libertarian I'm talking about American libertarianism. Not the anarchic/communist use of the word (which I do support).
American (liberal) libertarianism is economically right- believes in getting as close to free market capitalism as possible with minimal intervention from the government on society. On social issues they claim to be left leaning however that is only their claim on the mainstream political spectrum. The alignment on the political spectrum mostly comes down to economics and the role of government (making libertarians further right than Republicans of the past).
The left (liberals, socialists, etc) want the most government intervention. I don't think the definitions of American politics stuff you're using are accurate. -
2018-03-19 at 5:30 AM UTCAll sides of the political debate are shit, someone ring Putin and tell him that the time has come
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2018-03-19 at 6:05 AM UTC
Originally posted by なに？ When I say libertarian I'm talking about American libertarianism. Not the anarchic/communist use of the word (which I do support).
American (liberal) libertarianism is economically right- believes in getting as close to free market capitalism as possible with minimal intervention from the government on society. On social issues they claim to be left leaning however that is only their claim on the mainstream political spectrum. The alignment on the political spectrum mostly comes down to economics and the role of government (making libertarians further right than Republicans of the past).
The left (liberals, socialists, etc) want the most government intervention. I don't think the definitions of American politics stuff you're using are accurate.
Then your use of the word is pretty silly, because left leaning libertarianism (fucking dumb use of the word if you ask me, since you can apply it to so many different aspects as is seen in this discussion) is generally in line with the democratic party.
You use the word libertarian and then are like "No, no, I'm talking about this other, smaller group of libertarians. Not the ones people usually think of when they think of libertarians in America."
It's probably better just to say "Republicans." Because most of the people who would identify as libertarians (more correctly, they'd be libertarian socialists) in America most definitely would support fighting global warming. The Libertarian party itself supports protecting the environment, but not through government. Just through holding liable parties liable. They believe this will self-regulate into something beneficial for the environment. Way more on the philosophical side of libertarianism.
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Libertarian_Party_Environment.htm
The Republicans on the other hand have been very actively trying to fuck the environment up as much as they can. I'd say they're ironically MORE libertarian than the Libertarian Party, but it clearly comes from a place of greed and capitalism, and the pushing of ignorance/fear to achieve their goals. -
2018-03-19 at 6:20 AM UTC
Originally posted by 杀死所有的白魔鬼 Then your use of the word is pretty silly, because left leaning libertarianism (fucking dumb use of the word if you ask me, since you can apply it to so many different aspects as is seen in this discussion) is generally in line with the democratic party.
You use the word libertarian and then are like "No, no, I'm talking about this other, smaller group of libertarians. Not the ones people usually think of when they think of libertarians in America."
It's probably better just to say "Republicans." Because most of the people who would identify as libertarians (more correctly, they'd be libertarian socialists) in America most definitely would support fighting global warming. The Libertarian party itself supports protecting the environment, but not through government. Just through holding liable parties liable. They believe this will self-regulate into something beneficial for the environment. Way more on the philosophical side of libertarianism.
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Libertarian_Party_Environment.htm
The Republicans on the other hand have been very actively trying to fuck the environment up as much as they can. I'd say they're ironically MORE libertarian than the Libertarian Party, but it clearly comes from a place of greed and capitalism, and the pushing of ignorance/fear to achieve their goals.
My use of the word Libertarian? You're breaking my brain right now.
"The Libertarian Party (LP) is a political party in the United States that promotes civil liberties, non-interventionism, laissez-faire capitalism and the abolition of the welfare state."
Nothing about this is socialist. Socialism in America can be interpreted as supporting a Keynesian welfare state or the actual use of the word- calling for the abolishment of capital and the installment of a direct democracy institution.
It also doesn't align with the Democratic party as it the current Democratic party is interventionist (aside from the progressives), believe in regulation on business, and at least claim to support welfare.
The kicker about libertarians believing that the market will sort out environmental issues is that it has never historically happened and won't. Liberal libertarianism is the ideology of autism that's made to dance from strings pulled by the elite class.
I don't think you have a good grasp on the history of American political parties or current language. Or you're just purposely trying to spread misinformation. Your right to wrong ratio is about 4:3. Please refer to Wikipedia and a political compass. -
2018-03-19 at 6:36 AM UTCLet's rewind
Originally posted by なに？ It's real and I'm pretty sure we're past the point of no return. Even if every country met it's emission goals slated for 2050 we'd still be heading towards this trainwreck. The government needs to put aside funds for ocean desalination facilities if places like LA are going to survive. They also need to put funds aside for building levees around cities like NYC and Boston, and having a fund to buyout people's homes and remove all toxic materials that the ocean will sweep up in places like Florida and the Carolinas.
TL;DR: If you're in favor of small government and defunding federal agencies you're fucking shortsighted and retarded for what's coming up in the next 50-100 years with rising sealevels and droughts. No companies will fill the void in an efficient or moral manner and all you libertarians need to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.
To be perfectly clear, you were bitching about the LIBERTARIAN PARTY because you think they are the ones fucking shit up?
Let me ask you, why do you think the Libertarian Party is relevant? Do you think any sort of libertarianism MUST mean government = bad? I mean for real...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Democrat
^this is generally what people think of when they think of libertarians in America, because this is the largest group of libertarians in America. Not the Libertarian Party. Not libertarian Republicans. -
2018-03-19 at 6:57 AM UTC
Originally posted by 杀死所有的白魔鬼 Let's rewind
To be perfectly clear, you were bitching about the LIBERTARIAN PARTY because you think they are the ones fucking shit up?
Let me ask you, why do you think the Libertarian Party is relevant? Do you think any sort of libertarianism MUST mean government = bad? I mean for real…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Democrat
^this is generally what people think of when they think of libertarians in America, because this is the largest group of libertarians in America. Not the Libertarian Party. Not libertarian Republicans.
I'm talking about liberal libertarianism in general. It's quite clear that the Republican party didn't become as economically libertarian until the ideology was gradually pushed into it in the 80s. Once again, read the book Dark Money.
Also how unaware are you? The Libertarian Party is more representative of the ideology as whole than any other niche libertarian sect. Most people who claim to be Libertarians support politicians like Ron Paul and Gary Johnson who areeee- members of the Libertarian party. Go through the list of politicians in the Libertarian Democrat page you looked at then look at the Libertarian party page. The numbers alone show the relevancy. The fuck are you smoking? You're disillusioned if you think most libertarians in America would align with anything that had Democrat on the name. Infact, I haven't even heard of Libertarian Democrats until you brought it up.
You're just wrong on this man.
As far as relevancy to the environment: Most libertarians support laissez-faire economics and minimal government interference. This ideology has also permeated through to the Republican party over the past thirty years and this is what you're seeing in the GOP today. The Republican party guided by libertarian ideology. And this is exactly what you don't want if you want to solve/prevent ecological disasters that will carry refugee crisis with them. -
2018-03-19 at 7:06 AM UTCOnly 11% of Americans define themselves as Libertarians. Most of them registered as Democrats.
They are very clearly not in a place of power.
Republicans are, and they're fucking up the environment out of GREED. Not any particular political ideology. It is literally just the rich lobbying for policies and politicians that will earn them more money. -
2018-03-20 at 2:57 AM UTC
Originally posted by 杀死所有的白魔鬼 Only 11% of Americans define themselves as Libertarians. Most of them registered as Democrats.
They are very clearly not in a place of power.
Republicans are, and they're fucking up the environment out of GREED. Not any particular political ideology. It is literally just the rich lobbying for policies and politicians that will earn them more money.
This is why you're wrong. It's from 2013 but demographics don't change that fast.
And it's not how many registered libertarians there are that are the problem, it's the ideology itself that the Republican Party has adopted. I've said this three times. Stop fucking trolling me.
