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Policeman beheaded and son has heart/skin removed while alive
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2018-01-24 at 8:03 PM UTCIn fact I'm going to team up with Falco and we're gonna travel the world explaining this, he the technical wordsmith and I the 'just for kids' equivelancy.
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2018-01-24 at 8:05 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Well IIII say free will is making a choice when I think I could have made the other. That being how I feel, I have free will.
/thread
Did you have a choice in feeling that way? And when you make a choice, do you really? You're going to choose whatever the meat computer spits out, and what it spits out is not something you had a choice over. -
2018-01-24 at 8:13 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS Did you have a choice in feeling that way? And when you make a choice, do you really? You're going to choose whatever the meat computer spits out, and what it spits out is not something you had a choice over.
Yeah. You're trying to convince me otherwise, as if I have a choice. You also agree in choice. My meat computer gives me all of the choices and lets me decide for myself. I am my own meat computer programmed continually by myself. -
2018-01-24 at 8:16 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Yeah. You're trying to convince me otherwise, as if I have a choice. You also agree in choice. My meat computer gives me all of the choices and lets me decide for myself. I am my own meat computer programmed continually by myself.
Your meat computer decides. You are your meat computer. Therefore free will? I guess this works. -
2018-01-24 at 8:17 PM UTCI mean it doesn't really work at all, but I'm already bored.
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2018-01-24 at 8:23 PM UTCIt works perfectly well. There's seemingly no difference between my freedom of will that isn't mine and me having free will. I still feel the same either way.
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2018-01-24 at 8:25 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ It works perfectly well. There's seemingly no difference between my freedom of will that isn't mine and me having free will. I still feel the same either way.
It's the difference between driving a car and being in a self-driving car and holding the steering wheel while you make driving noises like a little kid.
Functionally neither is all that different, but that doesn't mean they aren't. -
2018-01-24 at 8:32 PM UTCIf one or the other could be proven would it matter or change how we live?
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2018-01-24 at 8:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ If one or the other could be proven would it matter or change how we live?
Not really. We're all operating under the assumption that we have free will, and if we discovered for certain that we didn't... we literally couldn't change how we live.
So yeah. This is why I'm bored. This the most circlejerky of all philosophical circlejerks.
Rest assured though: we don't have free will.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-01-24 at 8:54 PM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon Now you have to attack why it is not valid to say that someone has free will if they are able to fulfill their motive or predisposition without constraint or compulsion by another agent.
We've been over this. That is not what people mean when they say they have free will. People generally feel like they are the conscious source of all their thoughts and actions. They feel like they could have acted differently than they did in the past. That feeling is called free will. The problem is that you and I both know that a person is not the conscious source of their thoughts and actions. They could not have acted differently than they did in the past.
You are not talking about free will. You are talking about freedom to exert your will. Different topics, you're just re-labeling yours as free will. -
2018-01-24 at 9 PM UTC
Originally posted by Vizier My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, "If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately". Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- "Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through". I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because your posts gave me cancer anyway.
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2018-01-24 at 9:03 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS I just gave a definition… "free will is will that is not a result of processes outside your control".
Okay fine, we'll use that definition and dig into it a little bit: What conditions would will have to fulfill in order to qualify as being under your control?You keep saying we refuse to define it, but we have, and you refuse to agree with that definition and keep arguing strawmen (unimpeded will).
That's not what a straw man is. I gave you a logically valid, alternative definition because One has consistently failed to actually clarify or justify his idea of free will. We'll see if you dare better.If you can demonstrate that your will is not predetermined by factors you have no control over, you will have demonstrated free will exists. If you cannot… then that's on you.
Nope. This what we call a motte-and-bailey, and you're doing it to get away with begging the question: we can both agree that your will is predetermined, the disagreement is whether or not that means your will is capable of being free or not. -
2018-01-24 at 9:05 PM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind We've been over this. That is not what people mean when they say they have free will. People generally feel like they are the conscious source of all their thoughts and actions.
I've literally already defeated this argument a minimum of four times. The typical conception of free will is not a one-ended system outside of causality, it is one where you can have agency despite predetermination. -
2018-01-24 at 9:08 PM UTC
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2018-01-24 at 9:10 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS Not really. We're all operating under the assumption that we have free will, and if we discovered for certain that we didn't… we literally couldn't change how we live.
So yeah. This is why I'm bored. This the most circlejerky of all philosophical circlejerks.
Rest assured though: we don't have free will.
I do. -
2018-01-24 at 9:15 PM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon we can both agree that your will is predetermined, the disagreement is whether or not that means your will is capable of being free or not.
If your will is predetermined, it's not free. It's bound by determinism.
If you dont have agency over what you will, you don't have agency over executing those wills - to execute a will without willing the execution would be unwilling, so not free. If you execute your will because you willed to execute it, you've admitted that your will do so was predetermined, and therefore not free.
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2018-01-24 at 9:20 PM UTCAnd if you think being free to do what you were predetermined to will yourself to do is free will, that's just fucking asinine.
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2018-01-24 at 9:26 PM UTCAll these debaits but we still didn't hook up
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2018-01-24 at 9:26 PM UTCAll these games and you still decided to play me
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2018-01-24 at 9:27 PM UTC
