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Oh, what's that, fag? You're a man of logic who needs "evidence" or "proof"?
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2018-01-07 at 10:52 PM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader or did you mean existence after death. existence with consciousness after death ?
Some sort of persistence of "you"ness after death is what I meant, yesi prefer to believe that our souls and spirits are energies and will always be around, and all we ever needed is a compatible body to act as a receiver so that we may manifest ourselves physically in this world.
why? -
2018-01-07 at 11:04 PM UTC
Originally posted by Eval/Apply …You keep saying it's "mathematically impossible" but you haven't shown us even the faintest trace of mathematics. Why don't you select one of "nature's wonders", tell us how likely it is to have come about, and then show us the calculation that makes that estimation.
Well, I will. But first, I'd like you to show me the mathematical probability of a nuclear warhead appearing by itself after millions, billions or even trillions of years. Like, one day there's no warhead there, and then, over the course of a tetrazillion years, one slowly starts to form, starts to pull itself together, and finally makes an appearance as a fully-working modern nuclear warhead. Lets see the actual probability numbers on that first. Don't you see how completely ludicrous that kind of theory is? -
2018-01-07 at 11:11 PM UTC
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2018-01-07 at 11:12 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Well, I will. But first, I'd like you to show me the mathematical probability of a nuclear warhead appearing by itself after millions, billions or even trillions of years. Like, one day there's no warhead there, and then, over the course of a tetrazillion years, one slowly starts to form, starts to pull itself together, and finally makes an appearance as a fully-working modern nuclear warhead. Lets see the actual probability numbers on that first. Don't you see how completely ludicrous that kind of theory is?
Thank goodness all our nuclear warheads didn't just materialize from a random matter soup. -
2018-01-07 at 11:19 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Well, I will. But first, I'd like you to show me the mathematical probability of a nuclear warhead appearing by itself after millions, billions or even trillions of years. Like, one day there's no warhead there, and then, over the course of a tetrazillion years, one slowly starts to form, starts to pull itself together, and finally makes an appearance as a fully-working modern nuclear warhead. Lets see the actual probability numbers on that first. Don't you see how completely ludicrous that kind of theory is?
I've seen this argument many many times before. Let me save you some time: I'm of course going to say it's vanishingly unlikely to the point of being near certainty (although this still isn't mathematics). You're going to compare warheads to complex lifeforms like humans and say what goes for them goes for us.
Warheads are not biological systems with heritable traits. There is no theory of origin of warheads by evolution by natural selection. Biological systems however have the ability to reproduce and an acceptable balance between mutation and heritability. We have powerful explanation of how very very simple living systems can arise from non-living systems and how simple living systems can give rise to more complex descendants. We actually have experimental proof of the latter. No such theory exists for warheads, so the analogy squarely fails.
Now where's my math specy boy? -
2018-01-07 at 11:24 PM UTC
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2018-01-07 at 11:27 PM UTC
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2018-01-07 at 11:28 PM UTCBut when I was talking about "evolving", I was talking in terms of systems theory, not biological evolution. Our entire universe is a closed system that is very complex, but evolved (as a system) from a very simple setup i.e. the big bang.
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2018-01-07 at 11:40 PM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon But when I was talking about "evolving", I was talking in terms of systems theory, not biological evolution. Our entire universe is a closed system that is very complex, but evolved (as a system) from a very simple setup i.e. the big bang.
Even if that were true, there would be no way for the individually evolved systems to work in concert, which they most certainly do; they would not be "aware" of one another. How can two systems, which are not aware of each other, work systematically in concert to achieve a higher result? Can't happen. If what you say were really true, we would have just a bunch of orphaned systems scattered around. They wouldn't all fit into a much larger, more refined, and more effective system. All the systems work in concert, together, to produce a much larger and much more favorable result. That is proof of intelligent design. -
2018-01-07 at 11:42 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Even if that were true, there would be no way for the individually evolved systems to work in concert, which they most certainly do; they would not be "aware" of one another. How can two systems, which are not aware of each other, work systematically in concert to achieve a higher result? Can't happen. If what you say were really true, we would have just a bunch of orphaned systems scattered around. They wouldn't all fit into a much larger, more refined, and more effective system. All the systems work in concert, together, to produce a much larger and much more favorable result. That is proof of intelligent design.
Thought that God nigga went hard fam. Just my personal opinion though. -
2018-01-07 at 11:44 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL But where did this initial "biological system" of yours come from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis -
2018-01-07 at 11:58 PM UTCAnd when we say "biological system", it's really being ingenious, because all systems are biological. All machines are "biological", including human and mechanical systems. The term biological simply means "alive", and "alive" is a matter of interpretation and viewpoint, not science. A machine can also be "alive". The human body is made up of about 27 grams of assorted elements. Mechanical machines are also comprised of a certain number of elements. The same elements found in mechanical machines, such as iron, can also be found in the materials used to create the human body. The human body is simply another machine, one designed for purpose and operation.
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2018-01-07 at 11:59 PM UTCwhats the point ???
even if we know the hows, we'll never know the whys. why do life and we exist. -
2018-01-08 at 12:04 AM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader … why do life and we exist.
The One source of everything decided it would be cool to experience itself while detached from itself, so it created an entire system - free will machines comprised solely from the source of its own body and power. All of this to see if it could examine and study and guide the results to a beneficial and enjoyable purpose. -
2018-01-08 at 12:08 AM UTCwhat purpose ????
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2018-01-08 at 12:14 AM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL And when we say "biological system", it's really being ingenious, because all systems are biological. All machines are "biological", including human and mechanical systems. The term biological simply means "alive", and "alive" is a matter of interpretation and viewpoint, not science. A machine can also be "alive". The human body is made up of about 27 grams of assorted elements. Mechanical machines are also comprised of a certain number of elements. The same elements found in mechanical machines, such as iron, can also be found in the materials used to create the human body. The human body is simply another machine, one designed for purpose and operation.
Machines don't have the ability to reproduce with heritable traits and random mutation. "Life" is a taxonomical issue, although there is a well accepted definition in biology which excludes all heretofore constructed man made machines. If you want to bitch about the word "life" though then fine, let's just use the line above: "systems with the ability to reproduce with heritable traits and random mutation". Say it with me spectral! -
2018-01-08 at 12:21 AM UTC
Originally posted by benny vader what purpose ????
The purpose of it all is simply to enjoy watching creation enjoy itself. There's nothing else to it. Very basic and simple. It's like me asking you, what is the purpose of you listening to music. You listen to it simply because it causes you pleasure. -
2018-01-08 at 12:23 AM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Even if that were true, there would be no way for the individually evolved systems to work in concert, which they most certainly do; they would not be "aware" of one another. How can two systems, which are not aware of each other, work systematically in concert to achieve a higher result? Can't happen. If what you say were really true, we would have just a bunch of orphaned systems scattered around. They wouldn't all fit into a much larger, more refined, and more effective system. All the systems work in concert, together, to produce a much larger and much more favorable result. That is proof of intelligent design.
The whole universe is a closed system. There are many subsystems and sub-subsystems, sub-sub-subsystems etc within it that may or may not work in concert. There's no reason that the evolution of the larger system can't product compatible subsystems. -
2018-01-08 at 12:44 AM UTC
Originally posted by Captain Falcon The whole universe is a closed system. There are many subsystems and sub-subsystems, sub-sub-subsystems etc within it that may or may not work in concert. There's no reason that the evolution of the larger system can't product compatible subsystems.
But your theory is blind; it wouldn't know if the two systems worked in concert or not. In that case, we would see a multitude of systems failing, when they work in concert, but we don't see that. Every single individual system works in harmony with the system beside it. This is 100% proof of intelligent design. It's not random. -
2018-01-08 at 1:08 AM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL But your theory is blind; it wouldn't know if the two systems worked in concert or not. In that case, we would see a multitude of systems failing, when they work in concert, but we don't see that.
What the fuck are you babbling about? Of course not every system works in concert. The universe is not a well oiled machine. The ratio of matter to empty space is basically infinitely small. There are trillions of planets out there that don't have life on them, because the conditions were not "just so" in their case. The Earth has so much shit because the conditions were just so here, in one of trillions of cases where they were not. I plug a 110v if into a 220v socket, it blows the fuck out.
Or universe's history is as a singularity that evolved into a big ass, hot fuck pit of Hydrogen, which swirled into countless systems of stars and planets and rocks and dust and shit. A vast majority of these have failed to generate life or whatever. We're on one of the ones where that's not the case.Every single individual system works in harmony with the system beside it. This is 100% proof of intelligent design. It's not random.
No.
