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Do fast food workers deserve a $15 wage?
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2015-11-15 at 2:05 AM UTC
A friend of mine once said: You know what the problem is with being an economist? Everyone has an opinion about the economy. No body goes up to a geologist and says, 'Igneous rocks are fucking bullshit.
These issues are really far more complex than the vast majority appreciate. Unfortunately for various reasons every generation seems to have a more blatantly unwarranted sense of their own intelligence than the previous, people don't have a proper sense of humility and their own limitations, they aren't willing to say "I don't know" or "I don't feel I know enough to comment on that." Unfortunately seeming confident, having a certain appearance, stringing together buzzwords, cliches among university subcultures that they somehow manage to believe are unique, original, and insightful opinions, spouting obvious truisms as if they're deep insights, is enough to have the effect they want on the vast majority of people, it works.
Regardless, the minimum wage is one of the issues stupid people and economic acolytes fixate on. It isn't even particularly effective, something like the earned income tax credit/EITC is far more effective and less distortionary if you want to achieve the same effect, and a negative income tax (not universal basic income), which was actually strongly recommended by the libertarians Milton Friedman and Charles Murray, would likely be the best alternative of all and be able to replace much of the welfare state which much higher efficiency.
There are also differential effects of the minimum wage. You can look up the data and the effects are much stronger among certain subsets of the population, particularly Blacks and teenagers, who have lower productivity (Which has a different meaning than is commonly interpreted. Many will be offended by this because they're idiots and also because we're still haunted by the stupidity of Marx's labor theory of value). International comparisons are also horrendous because of massive differences in demographics, resources relative to the population, and cost of living. For example, Australia's size is similar to that of the continental US despite only having around 23 million people, meaning that high wealth generated by resources can be distributed among far fewer people, raising incomes and competition for labor. The argument that they have the highest minimum wage and were the only/one of the only to escape the escape the recession is also incredibly moronic. People, common leftists constantly do this and act as if they're forming brilliant arguments, cherry pick two data points, and state an argument that's a standard conflation for correlation with causation "This country has this aspect we like, they also have this outcome, therefore, it's because of this." Made even worse by being able to choose between sources with the most favorable statistics and being able to interpret them differently. Look at how massive Australia's cost of living is, particularly for the poor, in terms of housing and food prices, which effects them the most. They, along with Canada, also had massive housing bubbles that simply hadn't burst at the time. Canada already had their recession, although due to favorable conditions they're fortunate to have and which can't simply be replicated by policy, they still haven't, but may be sliding into one. -
2015-11-15 at 3:40 AM UTCSo that's just a big roundabout way of you saying you're not qualified to comment on this subject? I could have told you that in fewer words.
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2015-11-15 at 5:52 AM UTCI know, it's a bad habit. What is anyone really qualified to comment on? Don't you ever feel insignificant and inadequate. Outside of your field, particularly Silicon Valley, the vast majority of people know almost nothing about and have no interest in computer science, couldn't follow a conversation or debate on it. It's one of the depressing aspects of life, our own limitations.
I suppose my paint point was that people should be more humble and reserved. Lord, can you imagine how relatively glorious the world would look if people learned to shut their fucking mouths and didn't feel a need to comment on everything as if the world can't live without their opinion? -
2015-11-15 at 7:59 AM UTC
I know, it's a bad habit. What is anyone really qualified to comment on? Don't you ever feel insignificant and inadequate. Outside of your field, particularly Silicon Valley, the vast majority of people know almost nothing about and have no interest in computer science, couldn't follow a conversation or debate on it. It's one of the depressing aspects of life, our own limitations.
I suppose my paint point was that people should be more humble and reserved. Lord, can you imagine how relatively glorious the world would look if people learned to shut their fucking mouths and didn't feel a need to comment on everything as if the world can't live without their opinion?
I'm asking everyone for their opinions. It's not like everyone in this thread who gave their opinion was just spouting off for no reason, they were replying to the thread topic. -
2015-11-16 at 8:30 AM UTC
I know, it's a bad habit. What is anyone really qualified to comment on? Don't you ever feel insignificant and inadequate. Outside of your field, particularly Silicon Valley, the vast majority of people know almost nothing about and have no interest in computer science, couldn't follow a conversation or debate on it. It's one of the depressing aspects of life, our own limitations.
I suppose my paint point was that people should be more humble and reserved. Lord, can you imagine how relatively glorious the world would look if people learned to shut their fucking mouths and didn't feel a need to comment on everything as if the world can't live without their opinion?
Actually a lot of people have an interest in computer science. Just last night I attended this convention http://sc15.supercomputing.org/ here at the austin events center. It was a big deal and was very insightful but I live in an innovative progressive city, I used to work for blizzard here in town.( and my father retired from AMD after 25 years) I have quite the interest in such pursuits And personally while I enjoy hanging with other nerds I realized I'm an artist and have gotten a job at a pizza place recently where I get close to 15 dollars an hour give or take. Working in a restaurant and gaining potential management experience doesn't equate to meaning you're a dummy. I plan to use my experience as a grunt to eventually go to cooking school to open my own signature Bill Krozbydog place.
It all depends the restaurant and how hard you're willing to work. Here in Austin some of the employees make of 15 an hour because of their professionalism, and they are an average burger place. -
2015-11-16 at 9:02 PM UTCI've worked in fast food making $10k a year, retail making $20k a year, distribution making $30k a year, cold storage making $40k a year, and a bunch of other jobs. Fast food is a little bit easier and less skilled than retail, and retail is easy as fuck. I think the wages are actually where they should be. The better you do at these jobs, the more hours you get, but also doing well at these jobs means that you could probably get a better job. The problem is that some people don't do well at these jobs and work at them for years which allows them to become full-time and then they begin to believe that they are skilled and need a raise when in reality, their just an idiot that learned an easy job over the course of years.
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2015-11-19 at 1:48 AM UTCOver 20 years ago, I was fired from my first job ever, at arby's, after a month, and told that I 'wasn't fast food material'. I'm still not sure if that was an insult or a compliment.
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2015-11-20 at 6:46 AM UTC
Over 20 years ago, I was fired from my first job ever, at arby's, after a month, and told that I 'wasn't fast food material'. I'm still not sure if that was an insult or a compliment.
See, I've learned not to take these things personally as I'm sure you did. There are just too many factors that might decide whether I'm compatible with a work environment to be so hard on myself. I remember when I was bagging groceries alongside mentally delayed individuals wondering why my entire life was pining for their disrespect and criticism, but now I recognize that my supervisors were just unhappy people wondering why retail was so difficult for them too. I don't know many people who are happy with themselves or what they do. -
2015-11-20 at 9:02 AM UTC
I don't know many people who are happy with themselves or what they do.
Oh, good, this makes me feel more secure. I'm glad they're suffering. I suppose I'd forgotten, in a way, that the world is like this and many other people are in a similar position. -
2015-11-20 at 7:23 PM UTC
See, I've learned not to take these things personally as I'm sure you did. There are just too many factors that might decide whether I'm compatible with a work environment to be so hard on myself. I remember when I was bagging groceries alongside mentally delayed individuals wondering why my entire life was pining for their disrespect and criticism, but now I recognize that my supervisors were just unhappy people wondering why retail was so difficult for them too. I don't know many people who are happy with themselves or what they do.
I also got fired as a grocery bagger, for smoking a cigarette when I was supposed to be doing carts. Fuck that old lady who told on me. -
2015-11-20 at 11:30 PM UTCsrs question: are kitchen hands deserving of a higher rate of pay than fast food workers?
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2015-11-20 at 11:44 PM UTC
srs question: are kitchen hands deserving of a higher rate of pay than fast food workers?
You mean loik, hamburger helper m8? -
2015-11-21 at 8:36 AM UTC
srs question: are kitchen hands deserving of a higher rate of pay than fast food workers?
Yes, of course. Fast food work is very easy and making good food takes some skill. -
2015-11-21 at 5:02 PM UTCSerious Question: If minimum wage workers deserve an increase in minimum wage to $15/hour, do skilled workers who are already earning a higher wage deserve an equivalent raise?
If minimum wage were to increase by 40%, does a worker earning $40/hour deserve a 40% increase in wage as well? -
2015-11-21 at 8:29 PM UTC
Serious Question: If minimum wage workers deserve an increase in minimum wage to $15/hour, do skilled workers who are already earning a higher wage deserve an equivalent raise?
If minimum wage were to increase by 40%, does a worker earning $40/hour deserve a 40% increase in wage as well?
No, because it's not the absolute earning of a given person that dictates spending power. The problem minimum wage helps to address is income inequality. If everyone's wages increase then income inequality isn't addressed, and wage increases across the board would actually result in universally increased costs of living (unlike basic income or increased minimum wage). -
2015-11-21 at 8:41 PM UTCWhy is income inequality a problem? Isn't that how a free market works? The value of your work should be determined by what people are willing to pay for it, not by regulations.
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2015-11-21 at 9:08 PM UTC
Why is income inequality a problem?
Because human capacity to experience utility is largely uniform. Or even if it isn't, it doesn't cut along income lines. Income inequality, at least at the scale we see in the US, causes a tremendous amount of unnecessary suffering.Isn't that how a free market works?
It is how capitalism works (I'd argue "limited free markets" can exist in many economic systems including mixed command economies) which is why I think capitalism is a fundamentally flawed system.The value of your work should be determined by what people are willing to pay for it, not by regulations.
Why? That's a normative claim. What about people's willingness to pay for thing_x gives someone who owns thing_x moral entitlement to that particular price for it? -
2015-11-23 at 7:07 PM UTCLanny is thoroughly brainwashed by privileged leftist 'educators'.
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2015-11-28 at 12:36 AM UTC
Lanny is thoroughly brainwashed by privileged leftist 'educators'.
He reminds me so much of this character:
that it is hard to believe Lanny is a real person and not just a fake internet persona. -
2015-11-28 at 1:56 AM UTCAww shucks guys, I'm really flattered you feel the need to avoid actual discussion with cheap slurs. Gives me the warm fuzzies.
