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Posts by Obbe
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2018-03-20 at 10:52 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Zanick I'm aware that plants enjoy a more complicated existence than we generally credit them for, but based on existing literature that I've seen, I'm not convinced that they suffer and I don't think they can be considered moral agents. If this were proven beyond a doubt, however, I would have to reevaluate a lot of what I think I know, and it would also prompt me to make dietary considerations.
Originally posted by Zanick Don't be sorry. You can try to read it all if you want, but more than half of it is drivel from the aforementioned morons.
My position on animal rights is deontological: I believe that we have an obligation to recognize animals as moral agents, making harming them a crime. This means that if it has an interest in living and suffers, we are not entitled to kill it.
I am an abolitionist: I believe we must end the relationship of exploitation with animals in our factories, farms, and testing laboratories as they are unconscionable and our actions constitute a holocaust.
Based on what I have read plants do respond to pain. I don't know if they can be considered "moral agents" but I don't know if animals can be either. But I think it's probably all relative. What a human, tiger, or a potato would consider "right or wrong" is probably all relative and not absolute.
If it were proven to you beyond a doubt that all living things suffer or have a "consciousness" would you feel obligated to stop eating any living things? Would you consider that to be suicide? Would you consider that a right or wrong thing to do?
I agree that the treatment of animals in factory type farms is wrong. I don't like it. But I understand thing better when I use metaphors, so, listen to this:
I work in construction. When new young people come into construction they are usually treated pretty poorly. I don't agree with such behavior and I don't participate in it. I believe it is wrong to treat people in such a way. But it's the way things are. I don't tell anyone they have a moral obligation to be kind to each other. I don't believe anyone does. When I choose to opt out of these behaviors that's a choice based on the way I personally view the world and how I want to react to it.
I believe something similar is happening when a person chooses to become a vegan - they are opting out of a behavior due to their own personal beliefs. I don't believe there is any obligation to not eat meat at all. Some people think it's wrong, so they don't do it. That's all it is.
Thoughts? -
2018-03-20 at 10:20 PM UTC in What religions do you encounter regularly, and what are your thoughts about them?
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2018-03-20 at 10:17 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
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2018-03-20 at 10:15 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
Originally posted by Zanick I think if there's one conclusion to be had from this thread, it's not that you should or shouldn't be eating meat, it's that Infinityqueer and Speedy Nigger are retarded and need to be heavily medicated to keep them from ever picking up a writing instrument again.
I am curious about one thing, recently I made a thread full of links to research into how plants may be intelligent and may even have a form of consciousness. What do you think about that? Would you ever consider yourself to be morally obligated to stop eating plants? -
2018-03-20 at 10:09 PM UTC in What religions do you encounter regularly, and what are your thoughts about them?This guy at work is always praying before he eats. I think it's stupid.
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2018-03-20 at 10:06 PM UTC in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meatSo wait, did this thread reach a conclusion? Do I have a moral obligation to stop eating delicious sweet meat? Is it wrong?
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2018-03-20 at 6:28 PM UTC in Lmaoooo does Obbe realize how much he sucks.
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2018-03-20 at 3:45 PM UTC in Lmaoooo does Obbe realize how much he sucks.
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2018-03-20 at 3:32 PM UTC in How Plants Communicate and Think
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2018-03-20 at 11:39 AM UTC in How Plants Communicate and Think
Originally posted by Jeremus Obbe please respond to my serious post
The word intelligence derives from the Latin intelegere; to choose between. In situations of choice if the decision made after assessment is beneficial, it is considered to be an intelligent decision. Legg and Hutter (2007) collected some 70 different definitions of intelligence and summarized them as follows. Intelligence: (i) Is a property that an individual has as it interacts with its environment or environments. (ii) Is related to the agents ability to succeed or profit with respect to some goal or objective. (iii) Depends on how able the agent is to adapt to different objectives or environments.
In the same numerical order. (i) Wild plants interact with and respond to their environment via competitive and other biotic and abiotic signals. (ii) The goal or objective is fitness with seed number as a fitness proxy. Those most successful, and thus most fit, provide more offspring. (iii) Fitness depends on the skill with which individuals best adapt to their environment throughout their life cycle (McNamara and Houston, 1996). Those individual plants that can master and adapt to the problems of competition, master other biotic and abiotic stresses with greater plasticity, lower cost, higher probability, or more rapidly, are fitter and on this basis are more intelligent. Finally intelligence is a capacity for problem solving, (the psychologists choice) and profiting from experience another (Jennings, 1923; Gardner, 1983; Sternberg and Detterman, 1986; Sternberg, 1986). All effectively say the same thing.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4845027/ -
2018-03-20 at 11:13 AM UTC in Lmaoooo does Obbe realize how much he sucks.
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2018-03-19 at 6:12 PM UTC in Lmaoooo does Obbe realize how much he sucks.That's me.
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2018-03-19 at 12 AM UTC in What are your favorite beverages?Water. Beer. Tea. Fanta. Lemonade. Milk.
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2018-03-18 at 11:36 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition.
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2018-03-18 at 11:32 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition.
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2018-03-18 at 11:31 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition.
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2018-03-18 at 10:38 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition..
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2018-03-18 at 1:51 PM UTC in How Plants Communicate and Think
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2018-03-15 at 10:40 PM UTC in The Retardest Thread: Fashionably Late Edition.
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2018-03-15 at 3:38 PM UTC in Which drugs do you take to function on a daily basis?The only drug I take daily is pot. But it's not to function. I function fine enough during the day I guess, but I like to smoke after work to unwind.
