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I feel like Tomie

  1. #1
    Dirtbag African Astronaut
    A reddit user's interpretation of Tomie. I couldn't sum it up better:

    "I think there are 2 takes on "Tomie" and both are correct in that they highlight the meaning behind Tomie series:

    By example of the viewer’s demonization of Tomie.Or

    The viewer's ability to capture an illustration of a misogynistic construct of “victim-blaming” that women face.---

    Both views highlight the true horror that stems from the reality of abuse suffered by women and the subsequent victim-blaming they experience.For important context, I want to first talk about the mechanics of mainstream archetypes of evil women in media, where they come from in culture then tie that to Tomie.

    For centuries, mainstream consumers have been programmed to be untrusting and suspicious of women depicted as selfish, bossy, manipulative, and promiscuous. Moderate examples of this can be seen in the cold-blooded “Femme Fatale” archetype (ex: Gone Girl, 2014, Basic Instinct 1992), or the bitter unfulfilled “Career Woman” (The Devil Wears Prada 2003, Working Girl 1988) and less these villainous characters “come to their senses”, set aside their career and start a family they face a doomed or tragic ending.

    For a long time, the majority of women are depicted as variations of “The Virgin” (good guy/hero) or “the Madonna” (bad guy/villain). This has obviously changed but still hangs around in our culture like an unwanted house guest.

    These character archetypes are an amalgamation of subconscious insecurities designed to exploit “fear of the unknown” and our desire to see rewards for what is “right” and “virtuous” behavior. This is a common tactic for generating suspense and distinguishing the hero from the bad guy. In this case, unfortunately, non-traditional morally corrupted women are the source of anxiety and therefore make great starting points for dynamic and interesting villains or tragic characters. They are often times depicted as selfish, sexually promiscuous, unmotherly, and/or manipulative and are “executed” at the end of her cautionary tales. In some cases, the "Madonna" does some truly terrible things. Still, sometimes she’s only guilty of fornication, exploratory drug use, or deviation from the selfless path of motherhood and we still are led to believe she deserves to suffer.

    Within the horror genre, “the virgin” (hero) often survives at the end of the movie despite her peers because she fits the acceptable female role of being humble, selfless, motherly, virtuous, and abstinent from sex/drugs so she is rewarded. In juxtaposition, the “Madonna” or promiscuous/non-traditional girl usually dies brutally or suffers a dark fate as a consequence of her choices. The presents women with one limited path to fulfillment and success with the implications of or else.

    We all know pop culture exploits and validates harmful stereotypes but it also feds off the majority of viewers' collective attention. In our culture, women are often commoditized, reduced to 2D dimension supporting characters, and demonized when they do not like children or the proposition of the path to "legitimate" motherhood. This media is a collection of our limited scope of “unacceptable” roles for people and our righteous desire to punish the “bad guy” in the end.

    Often times when we see real-life examples of women who deviate from the normal role of “the virgin”, (i.e. she’s depicted as rude, selfish, immoral, manipulative, promiscuous, and or unpleasant) we are suspicious of her and we expect her ill-fated future believing anything bad that comes is a result of her choices to deviate thus helping generate the often impossible standard of “The Perfect Victimhood” and its subsequent “victim-blaming” the ensues.

    This is why in the past we have asked rape victims “What were you wearing?” and “Did you lead him on?” to determine if her explanation paints her as sexually provocative deeming her responsible for the assault. This is “victim-blaming” it shields predators and abusers from the consequences of their crimes if a woman can not meet the extreme requirements of “Perfect Victimhood” to earn protection and support from her peers.

    If she does not meet these standards, she is blamed for her traumatic experience and abandoned by her peers summarized as a cautionary tale to pass along to their daughters and loved ones. Meanwhile, the abuser is excused for their actions.

    In Junji Ito’s series “Tomie”, the main character actually embodies a blending of stereotypes of “Madonna” women that are deemed “unacceptable” and “immoral” by society because she’s conceded, selfish, manipulative, and has sex. Even before her death and subsequent transformation into a benevolent vengeful creature, Tomie was a mean girl sleeping with her teacher. Therefore she doesn’t fit into the mold of “Perfect Victimhood” causing the viewer with internalizes misogyny to see her extreme misfortune and brutal murder as a provoked and reasonable outcome for her and women like her.

    In the first story, the reader witnesses young Tomie reveal that her teacher is sexually abusing her and that she has an illegitimate teen pregnancy. A boy from her class overhears this, and rather than report the teacher for sexual abuse of a minor he hits Tomie because he “loves” her and he was jealous, causing her to fall to her “death”. We even see her classmates later discuss how tragic this was for the boy (not Tomie) because he loved her and lost her, despite his role in her death.

    Instead of going to the police or the hospital Tomie’s entire class begins to share their own justifications for eventually brutally murdering Tomie after they discover she was still alive. Tomie’s female peers, in every story, envy Tomie. They want to be like her, act like her, or possess her beauty and because they can’t they eventually desire to see her ruined. The girls in these stories either stand by their idol as Tomie is murdered or participate. Tomie’s male peers, in every story, are believed to be “in love” with Tomie caught in her “trance”. This is not love it is an obsession. Starting from the first story, men are depicted as merely commoditizing her as something to possess. They oftentimes barely have any regard for Tomies humanity, even going so far as to collect her body parts after dismembering her, drinking her like soup, and devouring her. This unhinged behavior is an imitation of the justifications and motivations of stalkers who murder women when struck with the bitter resentment that follows their unrequited feelings and rejection.

    Take 1:

    The men and women in “Tomie” justified brutally murdering Tomie before she transformed into a benevolent monster. This unjustified murder and the nature of their terrible excuses for brutally killing this girl leads me to believe wholeheartedly that Tomie isn’t making them do this, and that's the point. Throughout the series, the viewers either realize Tomie is an extreme illustration of the shit excuses coming from abusers and their enablers to “victim blame” and how this absurd standard of “Perfect Victimhood” is leveraged to excuse almost any horrendous crime done to a woman. The true monsters in Tomie are the people around her that abandoned her and treated her like an object to simply possess.

    Or

    Take 2:

    (And this is my favorite take) The viewer begins to believe they are supposed to despise Tomie, igniting their fear of the “madonna” archetype. Their internal conflict is that with how Tomie doesn’t use sex to manipulate men, she doesn’t use drugs, she’s a terrible liar, she is often times depicted as helpless & vulnerable, she gets scared when she’s in danger, and her only crime is just being a mean conceded person. Unsurprisingly, the majority of “Tomie” readers who share this take in believing Tomie is “asking for it” or “is a terrible person who provokes people to do this” are MALE. Despite her literal pleas for help and being depicted as terrified when she's killed, they justify the murderous actions of the male characters because they need to explain away their own desire to see her executed in the end for what….. being mean?

    I always see from the male viewership mainly this desperate attempt to justify the abuse Tomie experiences by pointing to how “mean” Tomie’s Monster is as if she created this monster herself. The monster was not Tomie’s choice, she didn’t have a choice. Every abuse she faced, and murder stripped her of her humanity, til nothing was left of the original Tomie.This monster was created by her peers and yet you see so many male readers focusing on discussing how “plain and underwhelming” Tomie’s looks are is and debating how “terrible of a person” Tomie truly is, trying to justify and minimize the actions of the men in these stories by focusing on demonizing Tomie….. for being mean.

    “Novelist Margaret Atwood writes that when she asked a male friend why men feel threatened by women, he answered, "They are afraid women will laugh at them." When she asked a group of women why they feel threatened by men, they said, "We're afraid of being killed."Make no mistake, the real monsters in this story are everyone else."
  2. #2
    Michael Myers victim of incest [divide your nonresilient tucker]
    I'll read it after posting this, I just wanted to say I watched the first two Tomie movies. First one was from 1998 and the second one was from 1999. So far, I liked the second one the most, but haven't watched them all. I probably should. Which one did you like the most, if you've seen them all? And even if you haven't, which one did you like the best?
  3. #3
    Michael Myers victim of incest [divide your nonresilient tucker]
    Okay, I just read it. Errr... first of all, I think it's absolutely great when women don't want kids, I don't think that's an evil thing or a bad thing.. I think it's the opposite. I think it's good and I wish more women were like this, especially in my culture. But they are all the opposite. They're brainwashed to become baby-making machines. Not wanting children is the biggest dealbreaker there could be.

    The second take, which is the writer's personal favorite is weird, because it reminds me of incels. I'll explain. I am specifically referring to this part:

    "I always see from the male viewership mainly this desperate attempt to justify the abuse Tomie experiences by pointing to how “mean” Tomie’s Monster is as if she created this monster herself. The monster was not Tomie’s choice, she didn’t have a choice. Every abuse she faced, and murder stripped her of her humanity, til nothing was left of the original Tomie.This monster was created by her peers and yet you see so many male readers focusing on discussing how “plain and underwhelming” Tomie’s looks are is and debating how “terrible of a person” Tomie truly is, trying to justify and minimize the actions of the men in these stories by focusing on demonizing Tomie….. for being mean."

    Incels do the same thing. I have seen them saying this for years. They say, "After all the rejections I've faced, after the bad treatment I've gotten from women, it's only normal that I turned out to be this way." That's how they justify the bitter person they have become today. "I used to be a happy boy, but society changed me for the worse and the people behind it [women in this case] are ignorant and blame the person who I am now, while overlooking what happened in the past."

    I always thought it was a weak argument, so naturally I feel this is a weak argument here too. And I point this out to them as well, whenever I come across another person in the incelosphere saying it. I have also gotten my fair share of bad treatment, but it hasn't made me bitter. I don't think it ever will. I think the first take is better for this essay because the second one is just basically peak incel mentality but then from a feminist's perspective.

    Just my two cents.
  4. #4
    Elbow African Astronaut
    Originally posted by Michael Myers Okay, I just read it. Errr… first of all, I think it's absolutely great when women don't want kids, I don't think that's an evil thing or a bad thing.. I think it's the opposite. I think it's good and I wish more women were like this, especially in my culture.

    i wanted desperately to "ummm ackshually" this, but everywhere i look i see people saying that the quran treats having children much the same as acquiring wealth - a worldly desire that does nothing to bring you closer to god. i mean i also see people saying that it's good because it expands the ummah and quoting «تَزَوَّجُوا تَوَالَدُوا تَنَاسَلُوا فَإِنِّي مُبَاهٍ بِكُمُ الْأُمَمَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ» from sunnah but like...
  5. #5
    Elbow African Astronaut
    does allah really not want his submissives to have children?
  6. #6
    Dirtbag African Astronaut
    Originally posted by Michael Myers Okay, I just read it. Errr… first of all, I think it's absolutely great when women don't want kids, I don't think that's an evil thing or a bad thing.. I think it's the opposite. I think it's good and I wish more women were like this, especially in my culture. But they are all the opposite. They're brainwashed to become baby-making machines. Not wanting children is the biggest dealbreaker there could be.

    The second take, which is the writer's personal favorite is weird, because it reminds me of incels. I'll explain. I am specifically referring to this part:

    "I always see from the male viewership mainly this desperate attempt to justify the abuse Tomie experiences by pointing to how “mean” Tomie’s Monster is as if she created this monster herself. The monster was not Tomie’s choice, she didn’t have a choice. Every abuse she faced, and murder stripped her of her humanity, til nothing was left of the original Tomie.This monster was created by her peers and yet you see so many male readers focusing on discussing how “plain and underwhelming” Tomie’s looks are is and debating how “terrible of a person” Tomie truly is, trying to justify and minimize the actions of the men in these stories by focusing on demonizing Tomie….. for being mean."

    Incels do the same thing. I have seen them saying this for years. They say, "After all the rejections I've faced, after the bad treatment I've gotten from women, it's only normal that I turned out to be this way." That's how they justify the bitter person they have become today. "I used to be a happy boy, but society changed me for the worse and the people behind it [women in this case] are ignorant and blame the person who I am now, while overlooking what happened in the past."

    I always thought it was a weak argument, so naturally I feel this is a weak argument here too. And I point this out to them as well, whenever I come across another person in the incelosphere saying it. I have also gotten my fair share of bad treatment, but it hasn't made me bitter. I don't think it ever will. I think the first take is better for this essay because the second one is just basically peak incel mentality but then from a feminist's perspective.

    Just my two cents.

    But rejection isn't abuse. Abuse is.
  7. #7
    Dirtbag African Astronaut
    Originally posted by Dirtbag I didn't watch the movie, just read the manga.


    Posted this in the wrong thread.
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