User Controls
Why minimum wage is bad.
-
2015-08-27 at 10:22 AM UTCPeople seem to have this idea that if we just increase the minimum wage everyone is going to get more money at the end of the day. Unfortunately this is not how it works, what actually happens if you increase the minimum wage to lets say 15 bucks an hour is that it's going to be very expensive to hire a person. Which actually hurts the poor and unskilled. Because employers will in this case opt to automate rather than to hire people.
As an unskilled individual you have to be competative in order to get a job, you market your labor for the highest price you can get, i'm sure everyone agrees that accepting a job for 13 dollars an hour is always better than having no job because the government makes it too expensive to hire you.
In fact back in the day this was the exact purpose of minimum wage, unions wanted to make it harder for unskilled individuals and especially minorities to out-compete other workers. So this entire minimum-wage thing is actually anything but fair and in fact hurts the people it's designed to help. -
2015-08-27 at 11:56 AM UTCAlso if you pay $15 per hour to flip burgers the dumb bastard flipping the burger will have to work 40 minutes to be able to afford the burger he is flipping
-
2015-08-27 at 12:17 PM UTC
Also if you pay $15 per hour to flip burgers the dumb bastard flipping the burger will have to work 40 minutes to be able to afford the burger he is flipping
Lots of burger flippers get paid at least $10 an hour as it stands, and a double cheeseburger (at McDonalds) is still like $1.25. Why would the rate of a single cheeseburger suddenly cost $10 if people got paid $3-$4 more an hour, and why doesn't a cheeseburger at McDonalds cost $7.00 right now? -
2015-08-27 at 12:36 PM UTC
Lots of burger flippers get paid at least $10 an hour as it stands, and a double cheeseburger (at McDonalds) is still like $1.25. Why would the rate of a single cheeseburger suddenly cost $10 if people got paid $3-$4 more an hour, and why doesn't a cheeseburger at McDonalds cost $7.00 right now?
The math in my post was exaggerated to make a point and you know it. Try baiting someone who bites regularly like SpectraL. -
2015-08-27 at 12:55 PM UTC
The math in my post was exaggerated to make a point and you know it. Try baiting someone who bites regularly like SpectraL.
Lol. I ask a question and I'm 'baiting?' Ok... Fuck nobody can have a normal discussion anymore it seems. Apparently we all have secret agendas. I guess I missed the point you were trying to make...but I'm guessing it was- we raise minimum wage and the cost of living is going to go up? I'm sure it would, but not that dramatically. If you have to exaggerate to make the point that everything is going to cost so much more it's going to be ridiculous, that sort of defeats the exact implied point of what you're saying. The cost of living will go up, the cost of a burger will go up, but very marginally.
I can see how a $15 minimum wage can and would have a negative affect on smaller business and places struggling to get by as it is. There's no doubt about that. I don't know what the solution is either, but it has (in my mind) something to do with wealth distribution which obviously isn't an easy fix. I'll never think it's right for people to make 20x as much an hour than the person beneath them who is doing twice the amount of work. Sure, I do think that if you put in your time and work your way up the chain that you deserve to make more money than the entry-level positions and burger flippers, but when the amount is so egregiously higher, what the fuck?
Also, I'm not a proponent for $15 minimum wage as I do think a person should have to earn that type of money (not that that's an extreme amount of money). I have worked around enough teenagers working their first job, making minimum wage at $7.50 an hour, and so many of them are lazy, slow, inefficient workers, and to me they don't deserve to make more money if they aren't willing to demonstrate their abilities. Now they, and others, might say, "well if you actually payed them decent, maybe they would work harder!" Yeah, maybe they would. That's what raises are for, and that's a whole other discussion. Employees these days seem to think that a 50 cent or a dollar raise is a big deal, but frankly, it's not. If you make $8 an hour, full time, and really prove to your employer that you are a hard-working asset, and he/she compliments you with a $1.00 raise, what does that even mean? That's an insult. That's like.. an extra $50 or $60 a paycheck if you're actually working 80 hours. $50 fucking dollars. Am I projecting? Maybe. lol. I make more than the amounts I'm discussing, but as a person who's worked in the hospitality industry most of my life, and worked hard and well at my jobs, I can certainly say that most employers are very cheap and very unwilling to give significant raises to those who deserve it. Perhaps if that started happening more, people would start working harder as a collective, and businesses would run smoother.
There needs to be some magic guy in a cape that goes around to every business everywhere and does performance reviews on every single employee, every month, and decides the appropriate wage/salary for said employees. Give him a wand and magical abilities to boot. Thank you Jesus. -
2015-08-27 at 12:56 PM UTC
Lots of burger flippers get paid at least $10 an hour as it stands, and a double cheeseburger (at McDonalds) is still like $1.25. Why would the rate of a single cheeseburger suddenly cost $10 if people got paid $3-$4 more an hour, and why doesn't a cheeseburger at McDonalds cost $7.00 right now?
The point is, if the government decides employers have to pay employees a lot more money something has got to give. Either less people get hired, the employer automates or the goods and services the employer provide will have to go up in price. And before you say: Well then the CEO should give some of his salary up! Ok, but if you have a company with more than 20 employees there won't realistically be enough money in his paycheck to give them all a raise anyway. Besides, management earns more money because they bring more value to the company in terms of leadership, resource allocation for innovation and all kinds if good stuff like that. -
2015-08-27 at 1:12 PM UTC
The point is, if the government decides employers have to pay employees a lot more money something has got to give. Either less people get hired, the employer automates or the goods and services the employer provide will have to go up in price. And before you say: Well then the CEO should give some of his salary up! Ok, but if you have a company with more than 20 employees there won't realistically be enough money in his paycheck to give them all a raise anyway. Besides, management earns more money because they bring more value to the company in terms of leadership, resource allocation for innovation and all kinds if good stuff like that.
Free enterprise works. The more government regulation on it the more it resembles fascism. -
2015-08-27 at 2:43 PM UTC
Free enterprise works. The more government regulation on it the more it resembles fascism.
Not only does it resembles fascism, it's bad for the economy in general. -
2015-08-27 at 3:32 PM UTC
Not only does it resembles fascism, it's bad for the economy in general.
QFT -
2015-08-27 at 4:23 PM UTCGive it a couple years and unskilled labour will be replaced by machines.
-
2015-08-27 at 5 PM UTCthe bottom line is, if you want a better wage, get a fucking education, you uneducated, ambition-lacking, intellectually stunted niggers.
( caveat: I dropped out of college, twice ) -
2015-08-27 at 5:23 PM UTCJust because it'd be a shock to an economy doesn't mean it isn't the right direction. It's not as though making hiring more expensive immediately knocks down the possibility of increasing a minimum, we'd probably have to establish a line at which an otherwise prospering business just isn't going to be able to sustain those people and compensate them with a subsidy until the increase is more successfully integrated with our system. Those businesses will see more money, a large subset of our population which had little buying power before the raising would be able to go out to restaurants for dinner, they'll go to movies and take vacations.
-
2015-08-27 at 5:36 PM UTCThe problem with laffer curve arguments and their ilk (like this anti-minimum wage argument) is that they always presume to know the shape of the curve and that we're on the suboptimal right side of the peak which, so far, we've been presented with absolutely no evidence of. An exhaustive list of things that could happen to employment rates if we increase minimum wage: they go down, they stay the same, they go up. The onus is on you to demonstrate why the former is the case. So far you've given us "employers will automate" which assumes that the tipping point for automation cost-efficiency is somewhere between the current and proposed minimum wage (although we don't even know what you think those are since they very place to place) AND that the cost of investment in automation is zero or trivial. Neither of these are obvious, in fact the latter is obviously false.
-
2015-08-27 at 6:08 PM UTC
Free enterprise works. The more government regulation on it the more it resembles fascism.
this is so true. if people were left alone from government 'intervention', just imagine the society we could build. people like lanny tend to think that we would be reduced to darwinian savages murdering each other in the streets for toilet paper, and living inbred on substinence farms; but I believe that we could truly achieve greatness if government would just get out of the fucking way in most cases. -
2015-08-27 at 6:28 PM UTC
this is so true. if people were left alone from government 'intervention', just imagine the society we could build. people like lanny tend to think that we would be reduced to darwinian savages murdering each other in the streets for toilet paper, and living inbred on substinence farms; but I believe that we could truly achieve greatness if government would just get out of the fucking way in most cases.
It's really too bad we are both such as as Sholes. Because we tend to agree on the shit that really matters. -
2015-08-27 at 7:39 PM UTCewok assholes?
-
2015-08-27 at 8:30 PM UTCAssholes autocorrected without me noticing.
-
2015-08-28 at 3:40 AM UTCMinimum wage hurts investment and youth employment. Its not even debateable. If you want to increase domestic consumption of the lower class to think theyre better off at the expense of people who can actually grow the economy and people who want to enter it and gain skills then fuck it, go ahead. Minimum wage should be restricted to sectors that allocate hourly wages that are not actually what they are. For.example I had a buddy who worked at subway many moons ago and on the expense sheet at the wnd of the day he was assumed to be paid $15 an hour when he was really.getting 9 something. As shityu as it is to say a lot.of small businesses do this as well. Most drywall and painting companies will invoice for more than theyre.paying their workers. What to do about this? I dunno, as always more transparwncy is needed as I moo dat doep
-
2015-08-28 at 4:30 AM UTC
Free enterprise works. The more government regulation on it the more it resembles fascism.
Yeah, nothing screams fascism more than policy that aims to lift huge swaths of the working class out of poverty... -
2015-08-28 at 4:36 AM UTC
Minimum wage hurts investment and youth employment. Its not even debateable. If you want to increase domestic consumption of the lower class to think theyre better off at the expense of people who can actually grow the economy and people who want to enter it and gain skills then fuck it, go ahead
Yeah man, you're right, these proles just _think_ earning a living wage is a good thing. In reality they'd just be losing out by not struggling to make ends meet, dying earlier, eating worse, and being generally less happy. What fools are they to imagine literally dying from poverty isn't somehow actually working to their advantage.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
