Cooking/brewing your own ephedrine or pseudo? Uncle Fester
2021-06-05 at 1:50 PM UTCWhat are your thoughts? Is this feasible? Taken from Uncle Festers secrets of meth 8th edition. Both methods are included but I’m pasting the cooking one. What are inconspicuous ways to obtain benzaldehyde and formaldehyde? Almond flavor is just benzaldehyde, water and alcohol so could you distill it at certain temps? And would any of this work with the RPI method? And how is ephedrine vs pseudo when it comes to rpi? Please dumb it down.
Chapter Eighteen Cooking Your Own Ephedrine
You don't like that recipe? Check out this one taken from "Chemical Abstracts ", Volume 47, column 3347. Twenty grams of N-methyl-d,l-alanine and 50 grams of benzaldehyde are placed in a flask and heatedonanoilbathat 150-160°CuntilthemixturestopsfizzingotTcarbondioxide.
The mixture is then cooled and mixed with a few hundred ml of toluene. Whatever doesn't dissolve in the toluene is thrown away. The product, which is a mixture of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, is then extracted out of the toluene by shaking the toluene with about an equal volume of 1 0% HCI. The toluene can be distilled to recover unused benzaldehyde, ifthere is any in it.
The dilute hydrochloric acid solution which contains the products should be boiled down to concentrate it. The steam will also carry offsome byproducts, so vent this steam outside.
Once the dilute acid has boiled down to a volume of 50-100 ml, allow it to cool. Then add a little activated carbon, and stir it around for a while. Then enhancement it out. This will decolorize the solution.
Add lye pellets a little bit at a time with stirring until the water solution is strongly alkaline. Extract the alkaline water a few times with toluene. The combined toluene extracts should next be bubbled with dry HCl gas to give a crystalline product amounting to about 1 2 grams. The product will be about 8 grams of d,l-pseudoephedrine, and 4 grams ofd,l-ephedrine. lt will yield racemic meth upon reduction.
Take note that recovering ephedrine from water solutions is a bit different than recovering meth.
That's because ephedrine free base dissolves well in water, while meth doesn't. So for recovery of the ephedrine we take the dilute acid solution of the ephedrine and boil it down, j ust like in the pill extraction procedure using waler. Once it is concentrated, then it is made alkaline with lye, and lhe ephedrine extracted out. In this way you get good recovery of the ephedrine. Use too much water, and it's difficult to extract it all out.
This original recipe seemed good on the face of it, but it suffered from serious problems. The yield of product was low, as a lot of tar was made in the reaction. The starting material, N-methyl alanine, is not commercially available at a reasonable price, and it used to be not easily made by the methods available then.
These problems have been conquered by advances made with the passage of time. The large amount of tar made in the reaction is prevented if DMSO is used as a solvent in the reaction. DMSO also allows the temperature of the reaction to be lowered to 1 20 to 1 30 C. DMSO, or dimethylsulfoxide, has found wide use as a pain reliever for creaky joints. It can easily be had at well supplied veterinary supply stores in the horse section. It is also sold widely on the internet at a very reasonable price. One must avoid the creams, and stick to the pure liquid DMSO solvent.
The introduction of procedures using DMSO solvent led to the discovery that this reaction gives very high yields of the methylcnedioxy derivative of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine if piperonal i s used in the reaction instead of benzaldehyde. This opens up an entirely new way of making MDMA. One could react piperonal with N-mcthylalanine, and then reduce the product substituted ephedrine with lithium in anhydrous ammonia to MDMA. One could also use the reduction routes working through chloroephedrine and palladium. The reduction methods using HI and red P would not work because HI cleaves ethers on a benzene ring.
Benzaldehyde has been added to the List One of watched chemicals, but check out the " Making Shitloads of your own Benzaldehyde" section in the "Other Methods of Making Phenylacetone" chapter. That leaves the N-methylalanine problem. Only N-methylalanine can be successfully be used in this reaction. Ordinary health food store alanine will react to give I ,2-diphenylethanolamine. N, N-
dimethylalanine will give no reaction. Check out the Journal of the Phannaceutical Society of Japan Vol. 12, pages 8 1 2 to 8 1 5 ( 1 952) for a complete discussion of these results.
A great stroke of luck for meth cooks was published in 2007. It is a very easy and very high yielding procedure for making N-methylalanine. It can be found in Tetrahedron Letters, Volume 48, pages 7680- 82. The reaction uses formaldehyde and zinc dust to do the methylation in water solvent containing partly neutralized phosphoric acid. Formaldehyde can be picked up on the internet or from other sources at low cost and with no heat attached as of 2009. A little bit goes a long way and the other materials can be picked offshelves at stores.
The following procedure has been found to be an easy and very productive method tor making N methylalanine. It is given on a 10 gr scale because larger amounts are not done easily with a magnetic stirrer. The zinc dust is quite dense, but must be kicked up into solution to react.
To 200 ml water in a beaker or other container, add 1 6 ml phosphoric acid. The hardware store dairy mi IkslOne remover phosphoric would work if account was taken of its weaker strength, and the detergent extracted. Next add 9.5 gr of NaOH to form the monobasic sodium phosphate. Lye would substitute as would bicarb or washing soda so long as the amount added was adjusted. Stir constantly. One should be able to make a roughly equivalent buffer solution by adding 40 grams of hardware store trisodium phosphate (TSP) to 200 ml ofwater, and then adding roughly 30 ml ofhardware store hydrochloric acid. I haven't tried this variation, but it should work and would be entirely supplied right off the hardware store shelf.
Now to this mixture add 10 gr alanine (.1 1 mole) from the health food store. It dissolves quite easily, and the solution should be around 30 C from the neutralization ofthe phosphoric acid solution by lye.
Next add 1 0 ml ( . 1 4 mole) 37% tonnaldehyde, follow that with 1 5 gr zinc dust andstir for 45 minutes. I know that is more than the Tetrahedron Letters article specified, but the amount of formaldehyde has been backed down from the 1 .5 molar excess stated in that article to around 1 .2. Fonnaldehyde is toxic and no doubt folks would do it in a kitchen. Less is more…so increase reaction time…besides that is the ingredient that one would need to purchase.
One will note a constant fizzing noise from the reaction vessel as the zinc dust reacts and makes hydrogen. The zinc gradually changes from grey to blue, and this is zinc phosphate. Zinc dust is easily had, but one can make one's own by taking a piece ofzinc metal such as pennies and grinding on a wheel or with a file until they are reduced to grit and dust.
Now let the zinc settle, then enhancement the almost clear water solution leaving the zinc on the bottom of the flask. It should enhancement clear water white through a couple of coffee tilters.
Add 50 ml of hot water to the settled blue zinc sludge on the bottom of the flask, and swirl for a bit.
Then let that settle. enhancement off the water, and add this to the main charge of enhancemented water.
Now tor the important part…add bicarb powder slowly and with stirring until the pH reaches roughly pH 7. One will need a pH meter, and make sure it is calibrated. Tap water should read within a few tenths ofpll 7, but buffer solutions are easy to get to calibrate a pH meter.
Once the pH has been adjusted to around 7, let the water clear solution sit in the fridge overnight. Great hcavy masses of long needle shaped N- methyl alanine will form. Let the mass grow to its greatest extent. It may take more than 1 2 hours to get the crystal growth to kick off. I f one has a seed crystal, it would be very convenient.
When the crystal mass has stopped growing, enhancement it off. Then rinse it with some alcohol…at least 70'Yo. ..and set the crystals on a plate to dry. The alcohol dries the crystals and keeps them from becoming bacteria food as they dry. Usc less than 50 mi.
Now the enhancemented liquid should be boiled down. This is another reason for using less fonnaldehyde.
Boiling the mixture makes the residual formaldehyde become part of the steam given off The mixture will now be kind of yellow colored. Reduce the liquid volume by half and then add the alcohol rinse from
the first crop of crystals. Then put this boiled down water liquid in the fridge to collect another crop of crystals of N-methyl alanine. Total yield is about 1 0 gr after the crystals have dried. This would react with benzaldehyde in OMSO solvent to give yields of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine which have not been seen since the mid 90's.
This newer and much better cooking procedure was covered in detail during two conferences sponsored by the Pharmaceutical Society of Japan in 2006 and 2007. The abstracts were published on line as "Proceedings of the Symposium on Progress in Organic Reactions and Syntheses". The two papers in question were presented at the 32"" and 33'd Symposiums by Yokoyama and Tsubaki. The easiest way to google up these abstracts is by searching 33'd symposium or 32"" symposium. To get the full cooking details requires some hands on cooking since they are less than willing to give the text of their proceedings. Go figure on that one!
The preferred procedure is to react one mole of benzaldehyde with two moles of N-methylalanine in DMSO solvent. Let's take a small scale example using 30 ml of benzaldehyde. It would react with 60 grams ofN-methylalanine to give roughly 25 to 30 grams ofa mixture ofephedrine and pseudoephedrine hydrochloride.
Now place 250 ml of OMSO into a suitable heating vessel such as a round bottom flask with reflux condenser…or a lava lamp ifyou are ghetto…add a magnetic stir bar…and 60 gr of N-methyl alanine. Then add 1 0 ml of the 30 ml of the benzaldehyde. It is best to add it in portions to save on the total amount of OM SO solvent used. This makes the clean up at the end of the reaction much more practical.
Heat this mixture to about 1 30 C if one is using piperonal, but benzaldehyde will react at a lower temperature. Look for the fizzing of C02 as your visual clue, and go with the lower temperature. Let it fizz for an hour or so, then add the next \0 ml portion of the 30 ml total benzaldehyde add. Let it similarly fizz for an hour before adding the last 1 0 ml portion ofbenzaldehyde.
After the last addition of benzaldehyde, let the mixture heat at the lowest tizzing temperature, and then tum up the heat slowly. The max with benzaldehyde should be at about 1 30 C. Piperonal would react much more easily, but allow the mixture to tizz to complete reation. Take no more than 6 hours on this stage ofthe reaction. Just push up the heat to get it going.
Now for the new part of the reaction Uust discovered), "Vinegar", yes the really cheap distilled white vinegar at the grocery store, greatly increases yield by breaking up a dimer complex the product forms. At this scale, add 500 to 600 ml of that cheap grocery store vinegar, and swirl to mix it in. Then add from 50 to 1 00 ml of toluene or xylene. This solvent serves as a catcher for the BS we don't want.
You will note that after adding the two volumes of vinegar, the toluene or xylene now form a layer on top of the DMSO and product layer. This is important as it is the crap catcher. The mixture now must be heated to reflux boiling temperature for 3 to 6 hours to break up the dimer and give the greater yields one wants. A lava lamp is unsuitable for this purpose.
Heat the mixture to boiling gently for three to six hours. Then let it cool. This has broken up the dimer.
Add about a shot glass of hardware store hydrochloric acid to the mixture and mix it in. This will assure that all the ephedrine stays out of the toluene layer.
Now put the reaction into a sep funnel and shake it. Let this settle and the toluene layer on top would have crap and unreacted benzaldehye in it. Put it aside for further work, the water layer underneath has the product.
Next base the OMSO and water solution containing the ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. Add a solution of lye to it with sirring and shaking until the p H is 1 3 plus. This should not take all that much lye to reach that level. Then add about 1 00 ml of toluene or xylene to extrtact the product. Save it. Extract again with 50 ml of toluene or xylene.
Wash the combined extracts with some water to rid them of DMSO, then let then sit to shed water and then transfer to a dry beaker minus the water droplets, and bubble with dry HCL to give about 30 grams of pure pseudoephedrine and ephedrine mixture as hydrochloride crystals. Keep water out of the dry HCI bubbling mixture!
2021-06-05 at 1:52 PM UTCyeah bikers and azns do it
2021-06-05 at 2:04 PM UTC
Originally posted by Ghost yeah bikers and azns do it
When I asked you about the brewing method some of the stuff you said was over my head. But basically it can’t be used for rpi reduction as is. What are your thoughts on chemicals though? I guess benzaldehyde can’t be that easy can it?
2021-06-05 at 8:21 PM UTCthat stuff is easy to get
2021-06-06 at 12:26 AM UTC
2021-06-06 at 7:11 AM UTCMeth is bad, OP. Maybe you should take your topic to reddit
2021-06-06 at 10:11 AM UTC
I was looking through a catalog for a farm chemical supplier and they had drums of it for cheap. It's pretty unwatched, the only time it was used big scale was in the 80s for p2p cooks but nobody does that anymore. I don't think anyone would expect someone ordering benzaldehyde would be cooking meth with it
its als easy to make
who said anythin about illegal drugs we are talking about legal ephedrine sold in stores
2021-06-06 at 1:11 PM UTC