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Do you use an IDE, if so, which one?
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2015-09-14 at 3:36 PM UTCSo i've been using Notepad++ for my programming needs and while it has been good shit i recently got into reading Black Hat Python, which i would highly recommend to anyone getting into python programming for INFOSEC purposes, and the author suggested i hook myself up with wing IDE, i gave it a download and i must say it comes with some awesome fiunctionality especially for debugging purposes.
Now as cool as this tool is i'm kind of used to using Notepad++ now and maybe my autism is showing but i kind of want to stick with that. For debugging purposes it means i have to make my own debugger at least which would be a good learning experience but meh, in your opinion, does an IDE help you a lot with programming and if so, why exactly in your case.
Also as a fun little side note, i'm getting into networking with python so i made a simple TCP client, right.
import socket
target = "127.0.0.1"
port = 12025
client = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
client.connect((target, port))
client.send("GET / HTTP/1.1\r\nHost: 127.0.0.1\r\n\r\n")
response = client.recv(4046)
print response
I got the standard response which was:
220 PC1 avast! SMTP proxy ready.
Appearently my SMTP proxy is a pirate. AVAST! YER GOODFURNUTTING SCALLYWAG!
Eh, don't mind me, i am easily entertained.
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2015-09-14 at 3:38 PM UTC
220 PC1 avast! SMTP proxy ready.
Appearently my SMTP proxy is a pirate. AVAST! YER GOODFURNUTTING SCALLYWAG!
Eh, don't mind me, i am easily entertained.
Kek. Still waiting on my shit to fuck with DreamWeaver bud. -
2015-09-14 at 3:54 PM UTC
Kek. Still waiting on my shit to fuck with DreamWeaver bud.
Cool, cool, hey did your buddy get started with the stuff i sent him? I didn't recieve a PM back so IDK how it went also. If he wants an easier logger i can hook him up with galaxy logger. It basically builds you a custom keylogger but you're going to need a crypter and save for PeCloak i wouldn't know how to get agood one without too much hassle. Lots of skids and shenanigans when trying to get a good one which is why PeCloak is bauce, it's a little involved to set up however if you don't really have any programming experience. It's not too hard but still. -
2015-09-14 at 4:38 PM UTCI use a dental dam exclusively, yes. -_-
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2015-09-14 at 5:04 PM UTC
I use a dental dam exclusively, yes. -_-
I'm not sure i get it. If i got it though i'm sure it would have been pretty funny. -
2015-09-14 at 5:15 PM UTCI use notepad++ as well for the most part. But recently for learning R I have been working in its own environment with a few add one for more functionality.
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2015-09-14 at 5:18 PM UTC
I'm not sure i get it. If i got it though i'm sure it would have been pretty funny.
No it was a fucking stupid joke... it's an IUD - intrauterine device. (see? stupid.) -
2015-09-14 at 6:44 PM UTC
I use notepad++ as well for the most part. But recently for learning R I have been working in its own environment with a few add one for more functionality.
Nice, so when you do use Notepad++, what do you use for debugging purposes?No it was a fucking stupid joke… it's an IUD - intrauterine device. (see? stupid.)
It's ok mQ, i still love you. -
2015-09-14 at 11:02 PM UTCI usually just use the standard debugger that comes with the compiler or interpreter for whatever language im fucking around with. Most of the time I just look up whatever error code I get and try and fix it myself and since im still in the learning stages I dont really have to do much serious debugging.
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2015-09-15 at 12:56 AM UTC
I usually just use the standard debugger that comes with the compiler or interpreter for whatever language im fucking around with. Most of the time I just look up whatever error code I get and try and fix it myself and since im still in the learning stages I dont really have to do much serious debugging.
Yeah standard debuggers are useful of course. I have decided though that i am going to be coding in Notepad++ but if i have a big project that i need to debug if i have any bugs i'll probably be using Wing IDE as far as python is concerned. Seems like a good compromise plus this means i won't have to make my own debugger. -
2015-09-17 at 7:35 AM UTCI use Eclipse but want to move into something else. I also use Sublime Text 2.
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2015-09-19 at 3:32 AM UTCI've hopped around on IDEs a lot in the past. 3~4 years ago I switched to using vim for 100% of my programming work (and a lot of other stuff since) and am still on that, it's been my longest running setup for programming, although I've certainly gone through a lot of vimrc configurations in that time (in the last month or so I added NERDTree, then wrote a series of macros linking `find` and `mvim` and since uninstalled it).
For whatever it's worth, in my experience probably 60% of programmers I've run into in the workforce use some sort of IDE with the remaining split between sublime/atom/vim/emacs but obviously that number fluctuates from workplace to workplace. To some degree an IDE or text editor is the most trivial part of a development setup but I mean if you're going to spend hours and hours of your life with the fucking thing even small things are worth finding a comfortable fit and I mean tricking out your shit is just pretty fun on its own.
I chose my vim setup for a number of reasons. The primary one is that at some point I had internalized the vim keybinds enough that I can't type as fast on anything else and I expect to die that way. People sometimes question if there's really anything meaningful to be gained by the archaic modal editor paradigm and it's a fair question but for me, personally, the answer is a resounding yes. I mean even if it's not any faster, the frustration of using the simpler universal set of editor controls makes me facepalm enough that the time spent on that is enough to tip the scales in my favor. A lot of people point out that (sublime|eclipse|atom|emacs|whatever) has vim-like keybinds but so far I've yet to see one that isn't at least subtly wrong in some way and it always bugs the shit out of me, one point of wrong behaviour is enough to throw off my entire "flow" I've found.
I've always worked in dynamic languages, so even heroic efforts like we see from jet brains means static analysis is pretty mediocre. A decent jump-to plugin and some experience with picking up new code bases makes SA unnecessary. People will argue that that's just learning to compensate for an editor failure and it may be true but even then I'm happy to give it up for superior text editing. You only need to learn call signatures/types once while you'll need to jocky around lines of text until you die or quit programming.
Anyway, yeah, I like the "editor separate from tooling" approach and use vim exclusively. IDEs have some cool features but there aren't a lot of thing that aren't implemented as a plugin to your editor of choice, so the question becomes "which is the best text editor" and I think vim wins that battle.
Oh, soph, if you don't know python has a nice simple debugger built in. Just stick `import pdb; pdb.set_trace()` on a line, and when that line gets executed you'll be dropped into an environment that's a lot like the REPL but in the context of the line being executed (so you can interact with/inspect locals and stuff). In 3 years of doing python dev every day I never needed more than that (well a few times I did, used "rdb" which is the same thing except for communicating with processes that don't have a STDIN/OUT (daemons) via a local TCP connection). -
2015-09-19 at 11:48 AM UTC
I've hopped around on IDEs a lot in the past. 3~4 years ago I switched to using vim for 100% of my programming work (and a lot of other stuff since) and am still on that, it's been my longest running setup for programming, although I've certainly gone through a lot of vimrc configurations in that time (in the last month or so I added NERDTree, then wrote a series of macros linking `find` and `mvim` and since uninstalled it).
For whatever it's worth, in my experience probably 60% of programmers I've run into in the workforce use some sort of IDE with the remaining split between sublime/atom/vim/emacs but obviously that number fluctuates from workplace to workplace. To some degree an IDE or text editor is the most trivial part of a development setup but I mean if you're going to spend hours and hours of your life with the fucking thing even small things are worth finding a comfortable fit and I mean tricking out your shit is just pretty fun on its own.
I chose my vim setup for a number of reasons. The primary one is that at some point I had internalized the vim keybinds enough that I can't type as fast on anything else and I expect to die that way. People sometimes question if there's really anything meaningful to be gained by the archaic modal editor paradigm and it's a fair question but for me, personally, the answer is a resounding yes. I mean even if it's not any faster, the frustration of using the simpler universal set of editor controls makes me facepalm enough that the time spent on that is enough to tip the scales in my favor. A lot of people point out that (sublime|eclipse|atom|emacs|whatever) has vim-like keybinds but so far I've yet to see one that isn't at least subtly wrong in some way and it always bugs the shit out of me, one point of wrong behaviour is enough to throw off my entire "flow" I've found.
I've always worked in dynamic languages, so even heroic efforts like we see from jet brains means static analysis is pretty mediocre. A decent jump-to plugin and some experience with picking up new code bases makes SA unnecessary. People will argue that that's just learning to compensate for an editor failure and it may be true but even then I'm happy to give it up for superior text editing. You only need to learn call signatures/types once while you'll need to jocky around lines of text until you die or quit programming.
Anyway, yeah, I like the "editor separate from tooling" approach and use vim exclusively. IDEs have some cool features but there aren't a lot of thing that aren't implemented as a plugin to your editor of choice, so the question becomes "which is the best text editor" and I think vim wins that battle.
Oh, soph, if you don't know python has a nice simple debugger built in. Just stick `import pdb; pdb.set_trace()` on a line, and when that line gets executed you'll be dropped into an environment that's a lot like the REPL but in the context of the line being executed (so you can interact with/inspect locals and stuff). In 3 years of doing python dev every day I never needed more than that (well a few times I did, used "rdb" which is the same thing except for communicating with processes that don't have a STDIN/OUT (daemons) via a local TCP connection).
Vim looks pretty cool, i've seen some screenshots with NERDtree and tagbar and powerline and it makes it look fucking fancy. Your points on functionality make me want to try it although i am a silly nigger and too lazy to configure keybindings i should though. Also Notepad++ has something like powerline preconfigured, also i have muh function list button and Notepad++ shows me if my indentation is proper or not and i can configure macros and such which is pretty cool.
Also thanks for telling me about the debugger i'll be sure to remember that. -
2015-09-20 at 7:08 PM UTC
I chose my vim setup for a number of reasons. The primary one is that at some point I had internalized the vim keybinds enough that I can't type as fast on anything else and I expect to die that way.
It appears to me, that being able to type fast and 'only use the keyboard', is the choice of professionals. I made a thread about this on either Zoklet or RDFRN, asking if I should try to stop using my mouse.
I've never used VIM, but I think if I tried anything else, that would be the first thing I looked at. -
2015-09-20 at 10:23 PM UTC
It appears to me, that being able to type fast and 'only use the keyboard', is the choice of professionals. I made a thread about this on either Zoklet or RDFRN, asking if I should try to stop using my mouse.
I've never used VIM, but I think if I tried anything else, that would be the first thing I looked at.
I'm far from a professional but i only type as well. -
2015-09-21 at 2:14 AM UTC
It appears to me, that being able to type fast and 'only use the keyboard', is the choice of professionals. I made a thread about this on either Zoklet or RDFRN, asking if I should try to stop using my mouse.
I've never used VIM, but I think if I tried anything else, that would be the first thing I looked at.
Yeah, the action of moving your dominant hand from your keyboard to your mouse too often, aside from just being kinda slow, can lead to RSI and stuff.It seems like it either just happens to some people or it doesn't for whatever reason. Things like a 10 keyless board help but some people (like me) strongly prefer having a number pad and there's still some strain there, just less. To be fair you can probably rig up mouseless workflows in most IDEs I imagine but they generally involve some kind of emacs-like combination of modifier keys which poses its own RSI risks and (and obviously I'm a bit biased here) I don't think you can capture the same power of composable commands that you get with VIM's modal design.
