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Psychedelics: A Most Sinister Plot
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2016-10-16 at 8:18 PM UTCShamanic traditions the world over have spiritual roots in a psychedelic experience. It is seen though, that as the world has developed in terms of philosophy and theology the psychedelic mode was largely abandoned. Proponents of psychedelics believe this disconnect is a negative and believe that psychedelics can expand our understanding and in some cases solve the worlds problems.
But if this were so why are the cultures that cling to psychedelia as a religious and social guide stuck so far in the past? The Aya shaman may be able to make incredible descriptions of ethereal forces but could not develop a system of writing beyond the most simplistic application of human language to pictorials and diagrams. Psyconaughts speak of the power of love and the positivity that the psychedelic experience brings to their lives but is it a loving invasion?
Many of those that have a psychedelic experience report contact with entities of various form. Surprisingly we find that though there are many entities stemming from psychedelia carry similar descriptions such as typical grey aliens, reptilian creatures, elves and others. Many describe encounters with these entities as real and believe that they are not machinations of cognition. Not all subscribe to this but it is an increasingly popular view. And what if this were valid and held true? What if the entities one encounters do not stem from within but rather from somewhere foreign?
Perhaps there are even truly sinister entities, alignments unthinkable that desire to inhabit your psychedelic experience? Attempting to confuse you and draw you into their traps of wrong thought and understanding? Is it possible that trans-dimensional entities are using the power of love and peace to bring about a new authority over its victims? The answers to these questions are unknown and perhaps will stay that way eternally but I will say one last thing. In an interview Dennis Mckenna was asked about the validity of reservations the religious (Specifically Catholics) have towards psychedelics and the spiritual dangers they open you up to and he said there is absolutely nothing you can say to them and that it is preposterous that they take this position. I would say his position is much more naive than theirs. -
2016-10-16 at 8:48 PM UTCBasically I would caution you with this, this stuff is a portal to another realm, in a sense.
No, not just another realm of thinking, but by following and diving deeper into this stuff you may open yourself up to an other-worldly being. Now, most likely this will be a negative energy creation. Many of you are very intelligent, you know your materials, you've read the books, you've researched. But what I didn't know when I came here was that I was called here by something.
I can see the beast, the creature on the other side. This world is not our world. It does not belong to us. -
2016-10-16 at 11:32 PM UTCIgnoring what seems to be trolling in the notion of extradimensional invasion via psychedelia I think it's worth trying to unpack the "only primitive shamanistic cultures incorporate the psychedelic experience" proposition, specifically to deny it. I think that if we look at the history of western culture (to say nothing of the popularity of psychedelic drugs in the west over the last century) we'll find a lot of examples of psychedelia although not usually in the form of a drug experience, qualitatively the same. In the medieval period we see a lot of reports of transcendent religious experiences with striking similarities to psychedelic drug effects, the vision of Teresa of Avila and Aquinas, both documented, as well as the writings of pseudo-Dionysius and Anselm which leave the striking impression they were had under psychedelic circumstances. In the ancient period records are poor but but it booze or drugs or anything else it's easy to think the Greeks in such thinkers as Thales, Zeno of Elea, and Parmenides were acquainted with altered states and taking as suppositions cornerstones of thought. In the pre-LSD modern period we have thinkers like Descartes and the phenomenological tradition in Jaspers and Sartre. And while it's not exactly broadcasted, most writers in the field of theory of mind and many mathematicians today are quite clearly influenced by drug induced psychedelic experiences.
Whether or not it's via entheogenic drugs, the psychedelic experience is an ingrained facet of western culture and spirituality. Certainly we don't seem to have any socially sanctioned institution for reliably inducing it but that doesn't mean it hasn't shaped our civilization in profound ways. -
2016-10-17 at 12:14 AM UTC
… the psychedelic experience … shaped our civilization in profound ways.
Certainly, and the same can be said about the "love experience", but maybe those changes are part of their plan.
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2016-10-17 at 1:31 AM UTCI see... Only darkness...
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2016-10-17 at 1:47 AM UTC
Certainly, and the same can be said about the "love experience", but maybe those changes are part of their plan.
I mean if you want to consider the notion of some kind of controlling entity, be it simple or complex, which exerts its will through certain human experiences like love or those of the psychedelic variety then fine, let's do it. I will posit that some of my experience is determined by some kind of external controlling force and I will assume it aims to obfuscate reality in so far as it is able, for to do otherwise insofar as it does is to trivialize it (i.e. that being which controls my experience yet makes it perfectly like a perception of reality might as well not exist, there is no phenomenological difference between the world where such an entity exists and one where it does not). This sounds strikingly like Descartes' demon, so much so that I will assume the situation thus described is reducible to Cartesian systematic doubt. If you disagree then we can discuss it but I think it stands pretty uncontroversial.
So then we stand where Descartes did almost 600 years ago. I'll state plainly that I reject, and I think most sane people with an appreciation of the synthetic/analytic distinction will do the same, two of Descartes' moves. Firstly I reject a presupposition of God or Anselm's borrowed argument that we can arrive at the conclusion of God's existence from a position of methodological doubt. Secondly I reject Descartes' doctrine that mathematical truths, or more generally the truths of formal systems are doubtable in a system where the ontological argument holds (specifically I think truths of formal systems are provable under weaker conditions than the ontological argument and as such I accept the former as certain while rejecting the latter but this prioritization is not essential). Where then does this leave us? It sets as uncertain every object of sense data, I know not whether or not the demon exists but I can be sure of truths in formal systems. This sounds a lot like the milieu in which modern philosophy has developed. Indeed I advance the assertion of such a sensorially controlling entity as has been heretofore described changes nothing about the fundamental assumptions human activity has proceeded under since the dawn of civilization: we have no perfected epistemology and yet a seemingly consistent reality seems to compel us to take the natural position. We may rightly doubt it, and consider any object of sensory input suspect but at last analytic truths may be taken as infallible, as weak a domain as that is, and we seem to have advantage insofar as we assume there is no obstructing demon nor means to overcome such an entity if it does exist thus it behooves our interests, regardless of the reality of the matter, to act on the assumption that no such entity exists and that our senses, free from detectable interference and with the ever present caveat of integration, report reality to us. -
2016-10-17 at 3:54 AM UTC
Ignoring what seems to be trolling in the notion of extradimensional invasion via psychedelia I think it's worth trying to unpack the "only primitive shamanistic cultures incorporate the psychedelic experience" proposition, specifically to deny it. I think that if we look at the history of western culture (to say nothing of the popularity of psychedelic drugs in the west over the last century) we'll find a lot of examples of psychedelia although not usually in the form of a drug experience, qualitatively the same. In the medieval period we see a lot of reports of transcendent religious experiences with striking similarities to psychedelic drug effects, the vision of Teresa of Avila and Aquinas, both documented, as well as the writings of pseudo-Dionysius and Anselm which leave the striking impression they were had under psychedelic circumstances. In the ancient period records are poor but but it booze or drugs or anything else it's easy to think the Greeks in such thinkers as Thales, Zeno of Elea, and Parmenides were acquainted with altered states and taking as suppositions cornerstones of thought. In the pre-LSD modern period we have thinkers like Descartes and the phenomenological tradition in Jaspers and Sartre. And while it's not exactly broadcasted, most writers in the field of theory of mind and many mathematicians today are quite clearly influenced by drug induced psychedelic experiences.
Whether or not it's via entheogenic drugs, the psychedelic experience is an ingrained facet of western culture and spirituality. Certainly we don't seem to have any socially sanctioned institution for reliably inducing it but that doesn't mean it hasn't shaped our civilization in profound ways.
Ignoring what seems to be trolling in the notion of western development via pschedelia I think it's worth trying to unpack the " I think that if we look at the history of western culture (to say nothing of the popularity of psychedelic drugs in the west over the last century) we'll find a lot of examples of psychedelia although not usually in the form of a drug experience" specifically to deny your greater point.
Its something like this muh nigga, you are proposing that the psychedelic experience is the cornerstone of western culture. You are surely confusing psychedelic with the idea of intellidelic experience. Psychedelic experience is governed by internal chaos and is that is seen in the shamanistic cultures I speak of. It is the entering of a forced journey. Intellidelic experience is different. And it may share certain similar features but the intellidelic experience is not forced but rather structured.
If any of this makes sense Ill go on but since you assume im trolling i dont see a reason to go further unless asked. -
2016-10-17 at 4:07 AM UTCOK, so if you actually want to take the 'invasion via psychedelic experiences' thing seriously then see my last post.
I don't know what you think "intellidelic' means, but the point I was making is that the variety of experience we have under the effects of LSD is, as far as available evidence suggests, the same as many thinkers throughout history have had in relevant dimensions, whatever you want to call it.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2016-10-17 at 4:13 AM UTCAbsolutely no credible evidence suggests that. To say that would be to infer that "thinkers" have to experience something psychedelic in order to be thinkers which is so entirely subjective that one cannot simply go off descriptions of things. The deep meditations of A-Khrid may be viewed as psychedelic through description but is really much different. You cannot look at history and say "Oh, plato just thinks that because his psychedelic experience with some fucking bread".
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2016-10-17 at 5:04 AM UTCFine, let's say vivid accounts of experiences that are in every reportable measure the same as experiences had under the effects of psychedelics do not qualify as evidence of a psychedelic experience. With this standard of evidence in mind please remind me what has convinced you liserd people or what have you maintain some sort of dominion over the modern drug experience.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2016-10-17 at 6:02 AM UTCWell I am aware it is a stretch of the imagination but ill lead you through it. We can first consider that spooky action at a distance and recognize that on the quantum level entanglement may occur. With this in mind we consider the structure of a molecule itself. Rather inconsequential in itself, but it holds the key. And lets keep in mind the idea of resonance frequency just for kicks. Now we are going to weave a web that may be more fi than sci but that is the purpose of CONSPIRACY! aint it?
Lets imagine that some beings, entities or individuals devised a method of locking a specific... eh lets say, "vibration" onto various structures by locking them to this resonance frequency. For the sake of the the theory lets say we are dealing with 5-meo-dmt as its experience is reported the most intense and otherworldy from reports I have gathered and allows us to delve into the specifics of a single molecule. This vibration may work as a structuring tool of a sort, many users of this particular substance report a "loading screen' so lets presume that this phase is the, well... loading phase. During this short time the psychedelic reality is constructed through a very specific vibration pattern or frequency or what have you. The entities you meet are tuned in in the same manner or perhaps with a parent molecule that gives them an advantageous frequency or vibration. [To add another vein we could say that the entities that you meet in this "pseudospace" are just other individuals who are on or have taken (lets pretend time is relative to psychedelia) the same molecular frequency. This vein of thought will be refered to as scenario B in later discussion]
So it has been established (in my theory) that 1. the space that is constructed upon ingestion of 5-meo is communal. 2. This space is manifest in an inherent property of 5-meo that facilitates psychic dislocation to this space. And 3. The entities you meet in this space are an intellect not of your own. To consider scenario B over the primary one would be to disregard the notion that these "frequencies" that make this space communal are controlled but it does not make much difference in the overall plot. The reason scenario B makes little change from the primary is that the space is communal and in the case that you share a constructed "pseudospace" with someone who harbors negative spiritual or mental energy you may fall victim to them.
I feel my explanation may be disorienting or even viewed as nonsensical in some views. So here I will take a pause and allow time for question and criticism.
I would like to point out though that this is a CONSPIRACY! To ask me to back up this theory with facts, studies, graphs and charts would drag up little more than shared experience reports and some odd citations from such a diverse group of literature that by the citations alone one could not tell if this is an occult study or a scientific analysis on neurology. Perhaps for our purposes those are one in the same. The point remains that this is THEORY and all these things I am saying are more of a consideration of how to make sense of something I dont understand rather than being a concrete and objective statement. It also remains that you are free to question, poke, prod, rip, molest, disagree or otherwise put the theory to the test, and on that point I will continue weaving my web. -
2016-10-17 at 9:19 AM UTCIt's nice to see lengthy discourse happening, I'm happy for you two.
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2016-12-10 at 3:39 PM UTCI think Terrence McKenna came to the same conclusion op. Something like the elves were really making a business transaction with him and that he eventually felt it was sinister and didn't really know what it was that he was trading or that they wanted. I think that the experience is that of death and rebirth. Are these entities then seperate from your mind or do they only exist within your mind, ie. are they judging you as you stand at the gates after death. Or are they always present? Are they manifestations of personality which are apparent during the altered state.
It's unlikely that these entities would only seek out people on psychedelics. Perhaps entity is the substance itself and the altered state is you interacting with it as it does it's thing in your brain. -
2016-12-10 at 4:31 PM UTCHansen, tell me about your first hand experiences with psychedelics.
Fuck Terrance McKenna. He was a fiend, a fraud an idiot. Definitely not a shaman or anything close.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2016-12-10 at 6:53 PM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Basically I would caution you with this, this stuff is a portal to another realm, in a sense.
No, not just another realm of thinking, but by following and diving deeper into this stuff you may open yourself up to an other-worldly being. Now, most likely this will be a negative energy creation. Many of you are very intelligent, you know your materials, you've read the books, you've researched. But what I didn't know when I came here was that I was called here by something.
I can see the beast, the creature on the other side. This world is not our world. It does not belong to us.
This world belongs to Satan and only the returning of Christ will save it. With this being said, there are obviously angelic and demonic forces at work in all of our lives, and whether one chooses to follow or heed one or the other plays a large impact on how these forces interact with us and our surroundings -
2016-12-10 at 7:38 PM UTCTeam darkness for the win.
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2016-12-10 at 7:50 PM UTC
Originally posted by cerakote This world belongs to Satan and only the returning of Christ will save it. With this being said, there are obviously angelic and demonic forces at work in all of our lives, and whether one chooses to follow or heed one or the other plays a large impact on how these forces interact with us and our surroundings
Source? -
2016-12-10 at 8:14 PM UTC
Originally posted by RisiR Source?
prove me wrong -
2016-12-10 at 8:41 PM UTC
Originally posted by Open Your Mind Basically I would caution you with this, this stuff is a portal to another realm, in a sense.
No, not just another realm of thinking, but by following and diving deeper into this stuff you may open yourself up to an other-worldly being. Now, most likely this will be a negative energy creation. Many of you are very intelligent, you know your materials, you've read the books, you've researched. But what I didn't know when I came here was that I was called here by something.
I can see the beast, the creature on the other side. This world is not our world. It does not belong to us.
Wait, are you e-blip and wrote the mirror in the stream thread?? -
2016-12-10 at 8:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by reject Wait, are you e-blip and wrote the mirror in the stream thread??
No I'm not. Do you know own where I can find a copy of that though? I've tried searching for it a couple of times but I can't find it.
