Nootropics + tDCS: Testing ideas are needed.

2015-11-05 at 11:55 PM UTC

#1

Psychlonic Yung Blood

I've got some items on order - a tDCS kit with 3x3 wet sponges, Noopept, and Piracetam. I've ordered both of the nootropics as I've heard on multiple sites that sometimes one doesn't work and when that is the case, the other usually does. In addition I've also got some choline to stack with the nootropics.

But how do I know it's working?

This is what I want to test. Sure I might "feel" more focused but how can I know it's not placebo effect? I can already focus well and concentrate on tasks, and I have great reflexes but I want to see if this can be pushed further. I've considered IQ tests but my score could likely vary by a few points day by day and if I were to steadily take tests then I would naturally improve as time went on anyhow just from the practice so I'm unsure if this can be a reliable indicator of anything. It might be possible to judge reflexes somehow.

Anyways, anyone have any terribly clever ideas to try?

2015-11-06 at 3:40 AM UTC

#2

Lanny Bird of Courage

Whatever test you decide to use, you just need to have some lead time before you start taking the nootropics. Take it everyday and yeah, you'll probably see your scores gradually rising for a while but they'll eventually level out, no one consistently scores 200 in IQ tests because they've taken enough of them as long as the test is generative (like you don't get the same set of questions every day). Once you have a consistent baseline then start administering the drugs.

As for how to control for the placebo effect you'll need... a placebo control group! And a blinded one at that. Unless you want to find at least two more people to participate, one to administer and one to act as a control (or have you act as the control, you can't know they're going to be the control) then you're fucked. This is why the majority of "citizen science" you see around nootropics is a clusterfucked waste of time. You might as well be realistic and admit you'll be hard pressed to differentiate between a placebo effect and actual effective medication, but I mean if it has a functionally meaningful effect does it really matter?

2015-11-06 at 7:40 AM UTC

#3

SBTlauien African Astronaut

Does this stuff actually work?

2015-11-06 at 8:11 AM UTC

#4

Lanny Bird of Courage

There's some conflicting but generally positive evidence that piracetam and co have an observable positive effect in people with cognitive impairment. There's a sea of anecdotes about its efficacy in healthy adults but as far as I'm aware there's no clinical evidence one way or the other. As for the DIY electroshock therapy, I don't know anything more than the first paragraph of a wikipedia article but I'm _highly_ skeptical of consumer electronics that claim to exercise action at distance through a human skull.

2015-11-06 at 4:56 PM UTC

#5

Psychlonic Yung Blood

tDCS took some time to literally "buy into" but the idea appears to have originated away from the consumer market and instead took place in various studies with some seemingly positive results including from DARPA although digging into this claim would be interesting since whenever I see the acronym I wonder if it's even true. The price to find out if this is bullshit ran me about $100. 100 bones is 100 bones so even though the cost is relatively low I'll be pretty disappointed if I don't experience results from it. Like nootropics though, there appears to be enough anecdotes out there to convince me it's at least worth trying. I'll report whatever happens or doesn't happen when it comes in and I give it a spin.

Does this stuff actually work?

That's the big question. From what I've read and my experience with supposed nootropics like caffeine and l-theanine in various beverage forms, the mind can absolutely be amped up. Using these as an experience, I am expecting the supposedly more potent nootropics to bring out more of what's already up there. Sensationalist headlines always say crap about how they will make you smarter but I think they really just bring out your potential. Personally if I'm crunching on something and really want to focus and be on my A-game I slam caffeine. I know for a fact by now that it helps me a lot and I fall into the zone where I can solve problems and be creative. It's also a plus if the situation is also physical.

As for plasticity I have no idea. I'll be happy with just focus and already don't have too much trouble picking up on new things so I'm afraid judging this will be pretty difficult. Maybe I should try to force myself into learning some things I would otherwise have little interest in as a way to personally decide whether a difference is being made?

Regardless I'll let you know how it goes. I spent a significant amount of time last night reading about the various nootropics out there and their best potential stacks and have a good idea where I want to go with my own when they come in.

2017-11-14 at 6:27 AM UTC

#6

Psychlonic Yung Blood

Hopefully nobody frowns upon necroposting my own post here, just wanted to follow this up as I forgot I'd made it and have plenty of new info.

TL/DR footnotes: tDCS is good and noopept/piracetam are weak sauce.

Nootropics can work a treat but why bother with low octane stuff? I've found my favorite combination to be a semax nasal spray and phenibut powder taken with anything strongly caffeinated (phenibut is somewhat GABA-ergic meaning it will make you slightly drowsy) Also, of all things microdosing LSD can be REALLY good, you don't get high but you feel great. You can buy 1P-LSD freely online. Take roughly 1/10 of a tab (YMMV) and you'll be golden. But as good and time proven as LSD is, I still prefer semax and phenibut. My brain always feels on point with those two things, especially if forced into large social interactions. Responses never miss a beat and everything just "clicks".

So far as IQ goes, I don't think there would be a solid increase. I don't think IQ really increases with these but focus certainly does. Capacity doesn't mean shit if you don't have the attention span to fill it.

As for tDCS, verified effective in certain montages and new research backs that too. I mostly use the DARPA configuration and the anti-anxiety montage. Not that I get severe anxiety, but I still feel much, much better.

2017-11-14 at 6:39 AM UTC

#7

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

What is the semax like? Would you consider it psychoactive in the way weaksauce nootropics are not? I do notice some stuff with noopept and the like but it's background noise. Had better luck with phenylpiracetam and was considering giving it another go, but semax

2017-11-14 at 6:42 AM UTC

#8

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

jsut take fish oil

2017-11-14 at 6:55 AM UTC

#9

Lanny Bird of Courage

fishsh oil mak u brain get blsted

2017-11-14 at 7:05 AM UTC

#10

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

the point of nootropics is they do nothing. they will not make you forget The Moment

2017-11-14 at 8:10 AM UTC

#11

Psychlonic Yung Blood

Originally posted by 霍比特人说中文不好 What is the semax like? Would you consider it psychoactive in the way weaksauce nootropics are not? I do notice some stuff with noopept and the like but it's background noise. Had better luck with phenylpiracetam and was considering giving it another go, but semax

So my first experience with semax was with NA-semax (ordered from ceretropic and that's all they had at the time) and it didn't do shit for me hardly. I'd read that some people just don't respond to it so I figured next I'd try just plain semax. Big difference there, recall and mathematics in particular seem to come so much easier on it, I feel like I don't even need to think my brain just get the job done. Noopept and piracetam worked, but comparatively it feels pointless. I also had success with phenylpiracetam and would consider trying it alongside semax instead of phenibut. Anyway, semax for me makes recall snappier and coupled with the ease of mind phenibut gives me life feels so much easier and carefree I guess. Only issue there is the sides phenibut has if you take larger doses which I unfortunately like. Coming down off it makes me feel like headed and tired all the time if I overdo it. Maybe cycling back and forth between that and phenylpiracetam would yield fruit but it's not something I'm super serious about so I haven't tried.

Fun fact I'm also a bit of a meathead and I regularly use Athlean-X pre-workout. Has some good stuff in it for the mind as well. For what it's worth, I can say that a combination of that, phenibut, semax, and a DARPA config tDCS session will help me grind through research trying to figure out just about anything I feel like learning.

That said, nobody should be surprised if my brain starts deteriorating or something in the next 5-10 years lol.

2017-11-14 at 12:04 PM UTC

#12

bling bling Dark Matter

i keep it medical with cannabias edibles

2017-11-14 at 2:21 PM UTC

#13

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

Originally posted by Psychlonic So my first experience with semax was with NA-semax (ordered from ceretropic and that's all they had at the time) and it didn't do shit for me hardly. I'd read that some people just don't respond to it so I figured next I'd try just plain semax. Big difference there, recall and mathematics in particular seem to come so much easier on it, I feel like I don't even need to think my brain just get the job done. Noopept and piracetam worked, but comparatively it feels pointless. I also had success with phenylpiracetam and would consider trying it alongside semax instead of phenibut. Anyway, semax for me makes recall snappier and coupled with the ease of mind phenibut gives me life feels so much easier and carefree I guess. Only issue there is the sides phenibut has if you take larger doses which I unfortunately like. Coming down off it makes me feel like headed and tired all the time if I overdo it. Maybe cycling back and forth between that and phenylpiracetam would yield fruit but it's not something I'm super serious about so I haven't tried.

Fun fact I'm also a bit of a meathead and I regularly use Athlean-X pre-workout. Has some good stuff in it for the mind as well. For what it's worth, I can say that a combination of that, phenibut, semax, and a DARPA config tDCS session will help me grind through research trying to figure out just about anything I feel like learning.

That said, nobody should be surprised if my brain starts deteriorating or something in the next 5-10 years lol.

seconded on the semax

2017-11-15 at 4:17 AM UTC

#14

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

Welp, looks like I'm buying semax. Is it stimulating like phenylpiracetam though? I really want to stop taking caffeine because the cardiac stimulation gives me chest pain if I don't take it with propranolol, but I like the mental stimulation. The mood lift of semax sounds divine tho.

I've been using phenibut like 5/7 days a week @ 1.5-2g and you're right, it goes so perfectly with nootropics. I find that it makes me mildly retarded in doses of 2-2.5g. It's like I gain confidence but lose brainpower. 1.5g seems to be my sweet spot.

2017-11-15 at 6:57 AM UTC

#15

Psychlonic Yung Blood

If you're looking for a physical energy rush type of feeling, no. You won't feel an energetic burst. It's nothing like adderall (obviously since it's basically designer meth) or modafinil/adrafinil.

You may be interested in caffeine co-crystals, specifically co-crystalled with pterostilbene. The short list is that it sort of extends the energetic effects of the caffeine so you're energetic longer and given more of a letdown than a straight up crash. Unfortunately that particular co-crystal has been patented on the commercial market as "PURENERGY" which I've only ever seen listed in a few select, shitty pre-workouts with mystery amounts of ingredients so you have no idea if anything is even in an effective amount.

However, you can buy both caffeine-anhydrous and pterostilbene in bulk powders and ball mill them to create your own. Co-crystals in general might interest you if you want to take a DIY route to better items.

2017-11-15 at 2:54 PM UTC

#16

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

I'll probably just give some of those pre-made caffeine/l-theanine capsules a try. Not looking for the physical burst of energy though, just mental. Been thinking of adrafinil too. Waiting till payday for more disposable income.

2017-11-15 at 2:58 PM UTC

#17

The Self Taught Man Black Hole

I don't "feel" any tangible change in headspace or stimulation from semax, but it does potentiate caffeine a lot and makes nausea from being addicted to edibles pretty unbearable sometimes for like 10 seconds at a time maybe once or twice a day.

inb4 no such thing as weed withdrawals, thats what happens.

User Controls

Navigation

Nootropics + tDCS: Testing ideas are needed.