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Any catholics?
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2016-02-15 at 7:35 AM UTCyay for... Jesus
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2016-02-15 at 11:45 AM UTCNot a catholic but i love catholicism, the churches, the music, the vatican, the art it inspired it's power and it's history.
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2016-02-15 at 2:42 PM UTCI don't think anybody here can post on this site and seriously argue that they're any form of real christian.
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2016-02-15 at 3 PM UTCYes, I am catholic, I was baptized at a catholic church growing up.
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2016-02-15 at 3:31 PM UTC
Yes, I am catholic, I was baptized at a catholic church growing up.
That's not what being catholic is.
Not to preach here, but being a christian is an active commitment. I know lots of people identify as Catholics that are pretty bad people, but that doesn't make them Catholic. You live a life that pretty clearly shows you don't have that active commitment.
Look at it this way, at what point should I not be considered a Raider's fan? I don't watch any games, don't go to any games, don't know most of the players,and don't even know a whole lot about the sport anymore. I could call myself Raider's fan, but there's a point where it's disingenuous on my part. -
2016-02-15 at 4:15 PM UTCI went to catholic school. Mexican drug lords pay tribute to the catholic church with coke money why can't I do that with space laser meth gold?? The pope just said don't kill so many peeps kthnxbye and I ain't killed nobody. God loves me, heaven is actually biological immortality on a space station
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2016-02-15 at 8:11 PM UTC
That's not what being catholic is.
Not to preach here, but being a christian is an active commitment. I know lots of people identify as Catholics that are pretty bad people, but that doesn't make them Catholic. You live a life that pretty clearly shows you don't have that active commitment.
Look at it this way, at what point should I not be considered a Raider's fan? I don't watch any games, don't go to any games, don't know most of the players,and don't even know a whole lot about the sport anymore. I could call myself Raider's fan, but there's a point where it's disingenuous on my part.
Very true, my gf was raised catholic, and still claims to be catholic, yet when it comes to the rituals, the the teachings of Christ and the bible i know more about it all than her. -
2016-02-15 at 8:22 PM UTCAshley's a catholic, then she took an arrow to the what the fuck is this satanism?
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2016-02-15 at 10:35 PM UTC
Not a catholic but i love catholicism, the churches, the music, the vatican, the art it inspired it's power and it's history.
Don't forget you can be a peedo
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2016-02-16 at 3:56 AM UTC
Don't forget you can be a peedo
Yeah, there's little girls in the choirs too right? Because i'm not into alter boys. I should become a priest and then a bishop and then a cardinal and get the title Prince of the Church and people have to call me Your Eminence. And i didn't even pull all that out of a hat, Cardinals are Princes of the Church and the proper way to adress them is Your Eminence. -
2016-02-16 at 4 AM UTCSophie come to TC.
Also don't become a priest that's gay as fuck. -
2016-02-16 at 5:58 AM UTCI went to catholic school in my youth. I appreciate it because catholic schools really do have a higher bar on the education they give. Never once was I taught that evolution was a lie, though one time the school priest called our class heretics* because of what we said when he came to our religion class. Twas top kek. I do not think the church is evil or bad. I dont like the tone the media takes when discussing the catholic chuch (especially compared to islam or buddhism) and I think that many people are deprived of the incredible history that theology has especially in conjunction with the way much of what we today have as historical reference and first hand accounts have been preserved by monks and followers of the faith. I mean look at how many view the churches "condemnation" of various scientist. The church did not bring about charges of heresy or whatever to Galilleo for presenting his theory of heliocentricity. Their dispute with him was largely academic and were actually based on the fact that his theory was not proven by the standards the courts held.
Now I am getting off topic. I should present the fact that I am not a practicing catholic. In my teens I quite angstily renounced the church in favor of a more agnostic and chaotic view. If I were to become part of the church again it would not be the catholic one. I have long believed the Orthodox church to be the true church and that catholicism is papism. And papists are faggots. But the orthodox church follows the church architecture laid out in the bible. Its mass is symbolically and rhythmically similar to those first meetings among followers of christ. And their churches and iconography is exceptional. If I were to ever call myself a christian again I could only do so under orthodoxy and I have contemplated it heavily.
But for now I shall remain a heretic*. I shall worship Kek the Frog God of Dank Primordial Memes. I shall bow to Eris the Godess of Chaotic Discord. I shall meditate upon what it all means.
* Now the term heretic has itself taken a sort of meme usage. If you are frequent of 4chans political or historical board it will be evident. The problem of this term, Heretic, is that in this age the heretic is one that basks in his heresy. Todays heretics get called heretics and their only rebuttal is that they are proud to be a heretic. This is all wrong. A true heretic remains steadfast in his heresy. In his mind it is not he whose belief is heretical but the others. Martin Luther was a heretic to the church but to him the church had been the one guilty of heresy, To him it was he who was doctrinally and dogmatically correct. This is true heresy. To look at an institution that is near 1000 years in development and say "No, you are wrong you fucking heretics" rather than "My heresy is my philosophy" is the core of this term. Am I getting through to you.
Hold on the liserd people are back.
*Pulls out broken off broom handle*
Git! Git out you fucking liserds!
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2016-02-16 at 6:11 AM UTCMy parents converted when I was like 17. They made me too. I went to classes and everything and got "accepted" into the catholic church after a few week of these classes that we had to take. I used to go so drunk and high. damn. I was crazy at that age. I know I seem crazy now but god damn I was just wildin out. But anywho, my parents are very into the catholic shit. Ash Wednesday just passed and my mom begged me and my SO to go to church. I don't believe in God. So I constantly have to make excuses to not go. I haven't told my parents I don't believe in god. I honestly think it would break her hear.
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2016-02-16 at 6:28 AM UTC
My parents converted when I was like 17. They made me too. I went to classes and everything and got "accepted" into the catholic church after a few week of these classes that we had to take.
You make it sound like college or something. You dont just get "accepted" you have to be baptized or confirmed. Regardless at your age you would have the option of doing neither since the ceremony would consist of the bishop or priest being like "You in?" at which point you respond "Amen" or "Fuck this shit". It sounds like you just kinda went along with what mommy and daddy wanted in order to resist conflict. You should just tell them what you believe (or dont believe) because its way more respectable and they wont ask you to go to church and wonder why you wont go with them and feel bad.
If you dont believe in God just tell em. If you think getting drunk and high are crazy then you dont know crazy. Wanna have a real crazy time? Debate the merit of believing in god with a real christian. If you and they arent pants on the head retarded they may actually make a good case, or be reasonable enough to listen to and respect your case. -
2016-02-16 at 6:31 AM UTC
I went to catholic school in my youth. I appreciate it because catholic schools really do have a higher bar on the education they give. Never once was I taught that evolution was a lie, though one time the school priest called our class heretics* because of what we said when he came to our religion class. Twas top kek. I do not think the church is evil or bad. I dont like the tone the media takes when discussing the catholic chuch (especially compared to islam or buddhism) and I think that many people are deprived of the incredible history that theology has especially in conjunction with the way much of what we today have as historical reference and first hand accounts have been preserved by monks and followers of the faith. I mean look at how many view the churches "condemnation" of various scientist. The church did not bring about charges of heresy or whatever to Galilleo for presenting his theory of heliocentricity. Their dispute with him was largely academic and were actually based on the fact that his theory was not proven by the standards the courts held.
Now I am getting off topic. I should present the fact that I am not a practicing catholic. In my teens I quite angstily renounced the church in favor of a more agnostic and chaotic view. If I were to become part of the church again it would not be the catholic one. I have long believed the Orthodox church to be the true church and that catholicism is papism. And papists are faggots. But the orthodox church follows the church architecture laid out in the bible. Its mass is symbolically and rhythmically similar to those first meetings among followers of christ. And their churches and iconography is exceptional. If I were to ever call myself a christian again I could only do so under orthodoxy and I have contemplated it heavily.
But for now I shall remain a heretic*. I shall worship Kek the Frog God of Dank Primordial Memes. I shall bow to Eris the Godess of Chaotic Discord. I shall meditate upon what it all means.
* Now the term heretic has itself taken a sort of meme usage. If you are frequent of 4chans political or historical board it will be evident. The problem of this term, Heretic, is that in this age the heretic is one that basks in his heresy. Todays heretics get called heretics and their only rebuttal is that they are proud to be a heretic. This is all wrong. A true heretic remains steadfast in his heresy. In his mind it is not he whose belief is heretical but the others. Martin Luther was a heretic to the church but to him the church had been the one guilty of heresy, To him it was he who was doctrinally and dogmatically correct. This is true heresy. To look at an institution that is near 1000 years in development and say "No, you are wrong you fucking heretics" rather than "My heresy is my philosophy" is the core of this term. Am I getting through to you.
Hold on the liserd people are back.
*Pulls out broken off broom handle*
Git! Git out you fucking liserds!
Outstanding (and largely accurate) post.
I grew up protestant but wound up finding a major pull towards the Orthodox / Catholic church. The problems that I found, however, is that their "historical" claims fundamentally come down to things nobody knows. For example, if you look at your claims that the "Orthodox church follows the architecture laid out in the bible and that the mass is symbolically and rhythmically similar to those first meetings among the followers of Christ" is very contentious. Mainly, because there are no records of anything that early. In fact, the earliest gospel account (Mark) is written two lifetimes after this Jesus character supposedly died (70 AD), and it isn't written in Aramaic (the language of Jesus and the disciples) - it's written in Greek! Apologists who are basically trying to sell you the religion won't even put it earlier than 40 AD, which is still a pretty long time for a story to be circulating around by mouth if you want to base your life off of it.
I'm not disputing the historical method, but you've got to concede that the Orthodox and Catholic churches mislead their followers into thinking "evidences" of their interpretations are the same as "proof" of their interpretations. For example, there's honestly pretty strong evidence presented by Hyam Maccoby that Saint Paul made up most of the New Testament to lead people away from the original teachings of Christ, which is supported by his many dubious claims that don't historically make sense (such as claiming to do the work of a Pharisee and a Sadducee, which seems to make no sense because they competed with each other for authority). I wouldn't mistake that for being proof that Saint Paul was a "mythmaker" (although it definitely demands an explanation). Similarly. the Catholic Church often argues that in Matthew 16:18 Jesus telling Peter "And I also say to you that you are Peter (Peter translates to "rock."), and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades not will prevail against it." as proof that "Peter was the first Pope. If you ask me, that's a pretty big conclusion to make on really small evidence. They supplement that verse with historical evidence, but this evidence is produced by the Catholic / Orthodox church based on records we know they don't have, so you're ultimately reduced to a tautology of faith in the first place all over again. -
2016-02-16 at 6:34 AM UTC
You make it sound like college or something. You dont just get "accepted" you have to be baptized or confirmed. Regardless at your age you would have the option of doing neither since the ceremony would consist of the bishop or priest being like "You in?" at which point you respond "Amen" or "Fuck this shit". It sounds like you just kinda went along with what mommy and daddy wanted in order to resist conflict. You should just tell them what you believe (or dont believe) because its way more respectable and they wont ask you to go to church and wonder why you wont go with them and feel bad.
I just meant I used to go cray with drugs and alcohol. I have calmed down a lot. Yeah, I hate conflict. I am not afraid to admit, I am scared to tell my mom I don't believe in God. It's gonna break her heart....idk...I just feel bad kinda. I mean, I love my parents. Idk..it's just really complicated. I used to go to church camp and very much believed in god and now things are different. And I just don't know quite how to tell my parents.
If you dont believe in God just tell em. If you think getting drunk and high are crazy then you dont know crazy. Wanna have a real crazy time? Debate the merit of believing in god with a real christian. If you and they arent pants on the head retarded they may actually make a good case, or be reasonable enough to listen to and respect your case. -
2016-02-16 at 6:43 AM UTCNot to be melodramatic here, but this part of this film is very representative of my experience with life and relationship with knowledge.
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2016-02-16 at 6:47 AM UTC
Sophie come to TC.
Also don't become a priest that's gay as fuck.
Don't feel like hanging out with the entire TC crew. -
2016-02-16 at 7:06 AM UTCOral tradition is a massive part of our historical knowledge. Even the books of lineage and histories from the Old Testament were not written at the time they happened but at a much later time. And let us not forget the emperorship jesus and his disciples endured. In terms of historical politics Tiberius and Caligula were two of the most chaotic and dangerous emperors of the age. Their vast control of judean lands is a direct cause for these things being so secretive until later times when it was safe to have a writing pertaining to Chrestus. I am not saying that we can absolutely hold the Gospels as valid in every which aspect but you cant refute that the political climate of the time made it very dangerous to be aligned with christianity.
Now I know nothing of Hyam Maccoby (sounds like a jedi) so I will have to look into his work. And it is very easy to speculate an instance in which a follower would take events and distort or alter them to align with his own view of perfection, heaven, god, etc. No your contention with Matthew 16:18 is the same contenion the Orthodox have with the papacy. The Catholic view seems to be that Peter (lineage of the bishop of rome i.e. the pope) was the first church and in that respect the most powerful and in some senses superior to that of antioch for insance. The Orthodox hold the bishop of rome as the first among equals. This is actually an incredibly interesting element of the great schism between these two churches for the reason that it is ultimately reduced to a tautology of faith. It is reduced to interpretation of scripture and in that regard the split of catholic and orthodox is a prime example of two different evolutions of one core doctrine. It is in my opinion one of the more sociologically fascinating pieces of history because it demonstrates that an organization as large as the church, when spread across continents and divided by geography, will inveritably come to their own conclusions an when they come tell each other of their conclusions the belief systems developed by either party is so radically different from the original that neither can reach a concensus. Thus an orginization splits into two yet they hold the same fundamental beliefs. How they interpret these beliefs and how they view the mysteries of faith is really what separates them.
I would even argue that this is not bad. Theology is the basis of philosophy. You can mentally masturbate to platos republic all you want or some stupid dialouges of endless questions until the subject has been quite literally guided to the "correct" answer but the works of people like Aquinas or Anthony or the heated exchanges that took place in coucils and tribunals of the church and you come across some of the most intellectually stimulated discussion in history.
On a last note I believe you are mistaken when you say "the Orthodox and Catholic churches mislead their followers into thinking "evidences" of their interpretations are the same as "proof" of their interpretations". Proof is what a scientist needs. Not a man of faith. And in their heart, near all decent men (any many indecent too) are men of faith, maybe not in god or the church, but they have great faith in something. Even a great scientist will benefit from great faith if not in a god in his work. Faith is not to be proven and as such one cannot present proof. The churches make their cases and give evidence in support of their claims but this is the intellectual aspect of man doing what he must to reinforce his views and beliefs. The faith runs deeper and is hard to explain. Believeing that Jesus was crucified died and was burried and three days later was resurected gets at the core of faith. No one can prove that Jesus rose from the dead. No one living can know if jesus appeared to his disciples and spoke to them. The importance of faith in this story is not blinding thinking god has amazing powers to bring the dead back to life. If that were it jesus would have lived happily ever after. No, this story demonstrates faiths importance by how jesus followers reacted once they gained faith. It is a story of people facing the death of their leader, regaining faith in him even though he died and continuing his work. Because regardless of if it happened or not, after his "reappearence" to his followers, they began a movement based in faith. And it resulted in one of the largest and most systematically advanced organizations this world has ever seen. -
2016-02-16 at 7:26 AM UTC
I used to go to church camp and very much believed in god and now things are different. And I just don't know quite how to tell my parents.
One time I went to church camp and we played this game that was like hide and seek but it was actually Romans finding jedis. It was pretty fucking weird looking back on it because the councilors dressed up as romans and "killed" all the jedis played by the camp goers.
