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Venezuela is an opportunity for Russia and China to change the world for the better

  1. Originally posted by None Venezuela Is An Opportunity For Russia And China To Change The World

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Nothing better illustrates Washington’s opposition to democracy and self-determination than the blatantly public coup Washington has organized against the properly elected president of Venezuela.

    Washington has been trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government for years. Washington wants the state owned oil company to be privatized so that it can fall into the hands of US oil companies. That would ensure Washington’s control over Venezuela. Transferring the wealth out of the country would prevent any economic development from inside the country. Every aspect of the economy would end up in the hands of US corporations. The exploitation would be ruthless and brutal.

    Venezuelans understand this, which is why Washington, despite wrecking the Venezuelan economy and offering enormous bribes to the Venezuelan military, has not yet been able to turn the people and the troops against Maduro.

    Moon of Alabama’s explanation of Washington’s attack on Venezuela gives you a truer picture that differs completely from the lies voiced by the American and European politicians and presstitute media, a collection of whores who are devoid of all integrity and all morality and lie for their living.

    I am not as confident as Moon of Alabama that Venezuela’s effort dating back to Chavez to be a sovereign country independent of Washington’s control can survive. Washington is determined to teach all of Latin America that it is pointless to dream of self-determination. Washington simply will not permit it.

    Maduro, despite being the duly elected president with the mass of the people and military behind him, apparently lacks the power to arrest the American puppet who, despite the absence of any law or election as a basis, has declared himself to be president, thus creating a Washington-backed “government” as an alternative to the elected one. The inability of Maduro to defend democracy from within is a sign of the weakness of his office. How can Maduro possibly be a dictator when he is helpless in the face of open sedition?

    If Russia and China quickly established a military presence in Venezuela to protect their loans and oil investments, Venezuela could be saved, and other countries that would like to be independent would take heart that, although there is no support for self-determination anywhere in the Western World, the former authoritarian countries will support it. Other assertions of independence would arise, and the Empire would collapse.

    Venezuela is an opportunity for Russia and China to assume the leadership of the world, but I doubt the Russian and Chinese governments have the vision to seize the opportunity and, thereby, fundamentally change the world.

    Putin is wasting his breath when he correctly criticizes Washington for its violations of international law. In Washington’s view, law is what serves American interest.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/02/08/venezuela-is-an-opportunity-for-russia-and-china-to-change-the-world/

    Security experts echo everything I say when it comes to Russia and China. China is more of a threat technologically in some ways, but neither country is actually an aggressor towards the US. It's the opposite.


    So in other words, if China and Russia stand up to the fascist globalist scum that run the US, they can make the world a better place.
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  2. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    I've been meaning to write a thread on this but I keep coming up with more background and more changes every day, so much so that I have to re-target what's worth writing about.

    Originally posted by We'reAllBrownNosers https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/02/08/venezuela-is-an-opportunity-for-russia-and-china-to-change-the-world/

    Security experts echo everything I say when it comes to Russia and China. China is more of a threat technologically in some ways, but neither country is actually an aggressor towards the US. It's the opposite.


    So in other words, if China and Russia stand up to the fascist globalist scum that run the US, they can make the world a better place.

    Not bad. I don't find PCR to be the best source because his analyses are often too US-centric and fail to see (or ignore) the facts on the ground in the same way that US news and think-tanks do, so it's a good idea to be wary.

    In terms of Russia and China, the bulk of the 'Resistance Axis', or the countries against a US-controlled monopolar world government, it's mostly Russia, China and Iran. China is the economic powerhouse, Russia provides the military and Iran mostly provides energy and materials (decades of sanctions has made it difficult for them to do much more than take care of their own people).

    As for Venezuala specifically, in a sane world they'd be left to their own devices as there is absolutely no justification (legal, under Venezualan OR international law, or otherwise) for Guaido to become president. In reality though, the US is using sanctions and trade embargoes to make life painful for the people, while also using media to blame the government for their suffering. This is exactly the same blueprint used against Libya, Ukraine and Syria, so we can expect them to follow the same pattern:

    1. Use sanctions and economic warfare to make life miserable for the people.
    2. Push the idea that the government is completely responsible for all of these problems.
    3. Use the above conditions, as well as NGOs, to foster protests and riots against the government.
    4. Incite the government to respond brutally, and/or use covert tactics to frame the government for same (see the Maidan snipers in Ukraine).
    5. Organise and arm anti-government groups.
    6. Civil war.
    7. Bayonet sodomy
    8. Profit.



    They're currently at phase 5, but I don't know how they'll be able to progress further without getting directly involved - there simply aren't a significant number of people willing to fight the government, regardless of whether they support Maduro or not. Venezuelan border guards have already intercepted several shipments of weapons from the US, and they've been halting aid shipments for that reason. Venezuela still has control of its borders, so there can't be a torrent of foreign terrorists introduced like Syria.

    The two ways this can go are:

    1. 'Military intervention', ie. another war of aggression
    2. More sanctions and blockades in an attempt to slowly strangle the country, but this will lead to closer integration with US rivals like China and Russia, which simply will not be allowed.
  3. Soyboy IV: The Flower of Death and The Crystal of Life African Astronaut [the oppositely able-bodied hop-step-and-jump]
    The article ignores the fact that unlike America Russia and China both have militaries that are more or less purely defensive. I don't think they could establish much of a presence in Venezuela even if they cared to.

    Whereas America's military is so designed for the offense that they couldn't even find a missile to equip a fighter with on 911.
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  4. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by aldra The two ways this can go are:

    1. 'Military intervention', ie. another war of aggression
    2. More sanctions and blockades in an attempt to slowly strangle the country, but this will lead to closer integration with US rivals like China and Russia, which simply will not be allowed.

    or hugo can appeal to north korea for assistence.
  5. Soyboy IV: The Flower of Death and The Crystal of Life African Astronaut [the oppositely able-bodied hop-step-and-jump]
    Originally posted by vindicktive vinny or hugo can appeal to north korea for assistence.

    Hugo dieded because the Jews gave him butt cancer.
  6. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by MORALLY SUPERIOR BEING IV: The Flower of Death and The Crystal of Life Hugo dieded because the Jews gave him butt cancer.

    i mean maduro.

    drain bamage.
  7. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Originally posted by vindicktive vinny or hugo can appeal to north korea for assistence.

    see option 1
  8. Jiggaboo_Johnson Naturally Camouflaged
    Originally posted by MORALLY SUPERIOR BEING IV: The Flower of Death and The Crystal of Life Hugo dieded because the Jews gave him butt cancer.

    He didn't really die, he's in hiding in South America...oh wait...
  9. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by aldra see option 1

    idk, because trump is trying to woo dprk.
  10. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Originally posted by MORALLY SUPERIOR BEING IV: The Flower of Death and The Crystal of Life The article ignores the fact that unlike America Russia and China both have militaries that are more or less purely defensive. I don't think they could establish much of a presence in Venezuela even if they cared to.

    Russia's military doctrine, the directives their entire force structure is based around, dictates that the military should be able to deploy within 2000km of Russian borders. Of course it's possible for them to project further if need be but it demonstrates the huge difference between Russian and US military - it's the reason why they don't have any significant foreign military bases (outside of Europe and the active theatre in Syria) and only one aircraft carrier. It's simply not the purpose of their military.
  11. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Originally posted by vindicktive vinny idk, because trump is trying to woo dprk.

    He's not doing a very good job of it. For the most part he simply made a lot of noise while north and south Korea worked on demilitarisation (even though he, of course, likes to take credit for it), and is now demanding that NK completely dismantle its nuclear and ICBM programs before sanctions are changed. NK has halted testing and closed testing grounds and expects similar concessions - they WILL NOT simply surrender their weapons in good faith for a number of reasons, so there's no reason for US-NK relations to improve anytime soon. NK-SK relations are improving, but I suspect the US will interfere with that until their demands are met.
  12. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Also, on Venezuela, something interesting I read the other day - even with their oil wealth, they're unable to profit from it on the open market. They're essentially bound to the US and Colombia because when the US 'bought in' to the oil production sector, they blocked any refineries being built inside Venezuela itself, and infrastructure was apparently designed in such a way to make changes extremely difficult. As a result, Venezuela cannot refine and export fuel; crude oil is exported at low cost to be refined elsewhere, and given the volume required the only real options are the US and US vassals.

    Potentially a country like Russia or China could rework their infrastructure and build refineries, but the costs of such a project would require that a large chunk of oil profits for the next few decades would have to go to that country, which in Maduro's (and Chavez') eyes would be much the same as allowing the US to exploit it.
  13. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by aldra He's not doing a very good job of it. For the most part he simply made a lot of noise while north and south Korea worked on demilitarisation (even though he, of course, likes to take credit for it), and is now demanding that NK completely dismantle its nuclear and ICBM programs before sanctions are changed. NK has halted testing and closed testing grounds and expects similar concessions - they WILL NOT simply surrender their weapons in good faith for a number of reasons, so there's no reason for US-NK relations to improve anytime soon. NK-SK relations are improving, but I suspect the US will interfere with that until their demands are met.

    i think the nk had always wanted to come out but really theres no good strategy to do so having doubled down on hardcore "communism" all these while. they cant like just say ok, my father and his father are idiots and we should be less communist than they said we should.

    what i like about trump is that he gives hope to hope. trump isnt america and america isnt trump, like in terms of kashogi thing, the putin, and the erdogan thing where a mundane phone call can trigger such a shocking decision.

    with trump, theres always this atmosphere of suspence and unpredicktabikity. and hope.

    and homosexual love triangle is always very intriguing.
  14. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by infinityshock ripped off lanny the trannys nasty panties to give him a whammy in his faggy fanny & made him say 'spank me daddy' then sold him to a nappy picaninny to be his crappy lackey..... China and Russia don't have aircraft carriers. they have holes in the water that they crash planes into.

    you only need aircraft carriers when your planes cant fly as far as they should.
  15. vindicktive vinny Space Nigga (banned)
    Originally posted by infinityshock ripped off lanny the trannys nasty panties to give him a whammy in his faggy fanny & made him say 'spank me daddy' then sold him to a nappy picaninny to be his crappy lackey..... you have no idea what you're talking about.

    ICBMs > aeroplanes.
  16. Jiggaboo_Johnson Naturally Camouflaged
    IBMs>MACs
  17. Soyboy V: A Cat-Girl/Boy Under Every Bed Houston [my no haunted nonbeing]
    Originally posted by aldra …As a result, Venezuela cannot refine and export fuel; crude oil is exported at low cost to be refined elsewhere.


    Potentially a country like Russia or China could rework their infrastructure and build refineries

    I don't really buy this. Oil refineries cost a lot to run and require a lot of fairly smart and well educated workers, while the average Venezuelan just doesn't want to work.

    As well as that you have to deal with the way that crude oil yields all sorts of different products, so even if you refine beside the well then shipping becomes a huge headache because you need to keep all the products separate, stored, etc, and then ship them individually to users.

    Pretty much all oil producers just choose to export crude and let the customer sort it out.

    The whole "move up the value chain" meme just seems to not work with very well with bulky commodities.
  18. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Originally posted by MORALLY SUPERIOR BEING V: A Cat-Girl/Boy Under Every Bed I don't really buy this. Oil refineries cost a lot to run and require a lot of fairly smart and well educated workers,

    no more than extraction, really

    Originally posted by None while the average Venezuelan just doesn't want to work.

    where do you get this?
  19. Soyboy V: A Cat-Girl/Boy Under Every Bed Houston [my no haunted nonbeing]
    Originally posted by aldra where do you get this?

    Everyone notices it, and back when oil was $150 a barrel Venezuelans themselves used to brag how Chavez's unique socialist genius meant they could focus on other things than basic production.

    I'm sure you'll hear them saying the same things once oil spikes again, oil isn't ever getting replaced by sunshine and lolipops.
  20. aldra Dark Matter [my considered impending distributor]
    Originally posted by vindicktive vinny i think the nk had always wanted to come out but really theres no good strategy to do so having doubled down on hardcore "communism" all these while. they cant like just say ok, my father and his father are idiots and we should be less communist than they said we should.

    The problem with NK is that they want to maintain their sovereignty at any cost, largely due to the Korean war and its aftermath along with the US being chronically unable to adhere to agreements it makes (specifically the previous disarmament treaty and the more recent JCPOA). The only way for them to survive and also maintain a military deterrent has been minimal foreign dependence and strong central control of what little resources they have.

    In terms of reunification, they've long wanted to improve relations and eventually re-unify with SK, but feel limited in what progress can be made while SK is still a vassal of the US, who they consider an enemy.
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