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Scientists found fifth force of nature, upending decades of General Relativity
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2019-11-25 at 5:49 AM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 5:55 AM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 8:53 AM UTC
Originally posted by DietPiano Yeah, I found the story originally from another source, it seems to be all over the science community right now though and it's already listed on fifth force theory page on wikipaedia with like only one other study. The other one I read said the odds of it being confirmed in the second experiment and both of them being flukes is like one in three trillion were they not done wrong which it is appearing they were not. They're saying a second repeat will render it confirmed more or less.
General relativity and quantam physics theory are both mutually exclusive and don't work together anyway so it was really only a matter of time for them to be stricken down anyway.
Yellow -
2019-11-25 at 9:10 AM UTC🍌
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2019-11-25 at 9:10 AM UTC🦍
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2019-11-25 at 2:18 PM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 2:41 PM UTCAs the Forbes article I read pointed out, the only people who have claimed to observe this (in both beryllium and helium) are this team of scientists. And they've claimed to have observed other things in the past which no other scientist has been able to repeat.
Peer review should really include/require independent reproduction prior to publication. *sigh* -
2019-11-25 at 2:57 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS Peer review should really include/require independent reproduction prior to publication. *sigh*
Thats fucking retarded and an infringement of free speech. Also just logistically a nightmare as it would be easy for any governing agency to determine what studies deserve to be studied further or published.
Better to have individuals screaming out into the void. People can determine for themselves if it should be ignored or studied further. I'd personally like to see further tests rather than have something buried just because it couldn't be replicated. -
2019-11-25 at 3:06 PM UTC
Originally posted by MexicanMasterRace Thats fucking retarded and an infringement of free speech.
That's a dumb take, Nature is under no obligation to publish you.
Originally posted by MexicanMasterRace Also just logistically a nightmare as it would be easy for any governing agency to determine what studies deserve to be studied further or published.
Definitely a logistical nightmare, but the current system leads to the publication of too much reasonable sounding garbage. You could conceivably invent a study and get published. It's silly.
Originally posted by MexicanMasterRace Better to have individuals screaming out into the void. People can determine for themselves if it should be ignored or studied further. I'd personally like to see further tests rather than have something buried just because it couldn't be replicated.
Then let them scream into the void. Just not in any of the major peer reviewed journals. I see your point that it's better to bring ideas to prominence so that people can decide whether or not they merit further consideration but the replication/reproducibility crisis is a thing and surely something needs to be done about that. -
2019-11-25 at 3:11 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS That's a dumb take, Nature is under no obligation to publish you.
Definitely a logistical nightmare, but the current system leads to the publication of too much reasonable sounding garbage. You could conceivably invent a study and get published. It's silly.
Then let them scream into the void. Just not in any of the major peer reviewed journals. I see your point that it's better to bring ideas to prominence so that people can decide whether or not they merit further consideration though. The replication/reproducibility crisis is a thing though, and surely something needs to be done.
Nature is a private publication i believe. They can publish what they want. They chose to publish this.
What youre suggesting is that we dont allow them to until results can be replicated because??? Somehow that's going to make it more truthful instead of creating self masturbating research conglomerates?
Granted, its only 9am here. But thats still the stupidest thing I've heard all day. -
2019-11-25 at 3:13 PM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 3:14 PM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 3:50 PM UTC
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2019-11-25 at 7:24 PM UTC
Originally posted by MexicanMasterRace Thats fucking retarded and an infringement of free speech. Also just logistically a nightmare as it would be easy for any governing agency to determine what studies deserve to be studied further or published.
its really not that hard to transport leters and numbers and symbols from one place to another. -
2019-11-25 at 7:29 PM UTCI saw this and it's a bit overhyped ATM. It would be easy to explain the effect with a new force but I'm waiting on further analysis and replication.
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2019-11-25 at 9:45 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS As the Forbes article I read pointed out, the only people who have claimed to observe this (in both beryllium and helium) are this team of scientists. And they've claimed to have observed other things in the past which no other scientist has been able to repeat.
Peer review should really include/require independent reproduction prior to publication. *sigh*
The math checks out and there's a corresponding picture, of which is necessary for the math to check out.
I agree though the alledged sketchyness of the lab is.. problematic, but think of how blackballed you're gonna get if you make a bombshell announcement like this with the intent and succession of reaching world infamy with lies and then knowing it will obviously get reproduced and exposed, I mean you're not gonna walk away from that without international shaming and possibly ruining your career.
These guys aren't idiots. Unless they're trying to secure more money, bit why if they're just gonna get let go as soon as their study is proven false? -
2019-11-25 at 10:43 PM UTC
Originally posted by DietPiano The math checks out and there's a corresponding picture, of which is necessary for the math to check out.
I agree though the alledged sketchyness of the lab is.. problematic, but think of how blackballed you're gonna get if you make a bombshell announcement like this with the intent and succession of reaching world infamy with lies and then knowing it will obviously get reproduced and exposed, I mean you're not gonna walk away from that without international shaming and possibly ruining your career.
These guys aren't idiots. Unless they're trying to secure more money, bit why if they're just gonna get let go as soon as their study is proven false?
I mean yeah, I'm not saying this is definitely false... just that I'm very skeptical. And "these people aren't stupid, they wouldn't destroy their careers over something like this" is kind of weak. It certainly wouldn't be the first time it happened. Here's an article about why and how it happens:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/feb/18/haruko-obokata-stap-cells-controversy-scientists-lie
Being a super smart science man doesn't make you honest or even "generally smart" when it comes to things outside your niche field of scientific research. They can still stupidly think they'll get away with something that ends up ruining them. They're still humans and humans do retarded self-sabotaging bullshit all the time. -
2019-11-25 at 11:26 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS I mean yeah, I'm not saying this is definitely false… just that I'm very skeptical. And "these people aren't stupid, they wouldn't destroy their careers over something like this" is kind of weak. It certainly wouldn't be the first time it happened. Here's an article about why and how it happens:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/feb/18/haruko-obokata-stap-cells-controversy-scientists-lie
Being a super smart science man doesn't make you honest or even "generally smart" when it comes to things outside your niche field of scientific research. They can still stupidly think they'll get away with something that ends up ruining them. They're still humans and humans do retarded self-sabotaging bullshit all the time.
Unlikely.
That whole lab was riddled with errors, they didn't even proofread the report before publishing it, which is why it got snuffed out right away because the paperwork didn't check out. They think she might have even been duped to save the company embarrassment.
The reason why this article is getting any attention at all is because all the methods and results got independently verified, and that is clearly not a doctored photograph. Yes, obviously scientists can lie HTS, I'm not saying that people with PHDs are flawless, infallible angels who never make mistakes. I'm saying this isn't a bathtub lab, it's the most prestigious lab in Hungary and it's very unlikely they're going to ruin the reputation of their institution, which is precisely why they pulled an earlier report they knew could be inaccurate instead of letting it get published. -
2019-11-25 at 11:38 PM UTCDark matter
Black matter
Grey matter
White matter
Who cares123 -
2019-11-26 at 12:08 AM UTCAll we have right now is unexpected interactions. We don't know what it is. The interaction is simple to model as a new one rather than trying to fit it into any of the other 4.
