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In regards to Trump betraying the kurds
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2019-10-09 at 10:08 PM UTC
Originally posted by Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country America tried using the Kurds as allies in Iraq, but the Kurds are only interested in building their Kurdistan, which literally no one wants. Why does the US need a bunch of poor dirt people on the other side of the world, who nobody likes, who have no real skills, influence or ability, as allies? For the women snipers? Nice for the propaganda posters I guess.
They're a thorn in the side of 3 countries and need influence and infrastructure. They would pay for themselves and espouse the ideals of America and can spread American influence all throughout the region. Future generations of Kurds are going to seek territory. Royavo is going to wane in control and south eastern Turkey is going to fall silent because they aren't emboldened. Having autonomous regions in countries tends to work out pretty well for Russia and in their best geopolitical interests. Any way you look at it, it's a stupid move to make enemies with the only non jedis in the middle east who will fly an American flag without burning it after.
Originally posted by -SpectraL Useful idiots for the military industrial complex and BigOil. They think they're helping, with their inane "feelings".
Are you feeling ok? -
2019-10-09 at 10:11 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 10:17 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 10:23 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 10:23 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 10:33 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sudo Not using the Kurds as an ally is a really stupid move, literally anyone will tell you that. They could literally be another Israel and the next few generations of Kurds are going to grow up with war and conflict and be bitter at the US for abandoning them. All they would have to do is not be pieces of shit and stand their ground with them and use them as proxy fighters with a foothold in 3 countries while they gain legitimacy. They'd basically be another Israel but less slimy and more useful. Just plain stupid. Trump is such a weak, weak person
I'm not a fan of how the Kurds have behave/d in Syria, but in terms of a US foreign policy tool they're in a unique position. There are two problems with providing deep support for the Kurds though:
1. Founding a Kurdish ethnostate or even just military 'satrap' right on the Turkish border will never be tolerated by Turkey. Erdogan's unstable and has a raging murderboner for the Kurds (look into what was found in Cizre after the last 'anti-terrorist' action), and these aren't just any Kurds - these are the YPG, which are the PKK in all but name, which are Turkish Enemy #1. Even if Erdogan were to leave office for whatever reason, Turkey and the PPK have a long history of warfare and terrorism so Turkey's attitude toward them having a stronghold right on their southern border would not change. Turkey's more or less now in NATO in name only and considers this a major matter of their national security, and under Erdogan would quite possibly attack (the small number of) US troops if they were to try to resist.
2. The Kurds in general have been highly opportunistic with no real sense of loyalty. They are not a reliable 'partner' for anyone as their vision seems to be very short-term. -
2019-10-09 at 10:42 PM UTC
Originally posted by Speedy Parker Which very well may be part of Trump's overall strategy. That is on Russia's doorstep make them sweep off the dirt and pay for the new porch.
That's more or less what they've wanted all along; if any of this was planned ahead by Trump the extent of it is likely to put the SDF into a position where they're no longer a viable US asset in order to nullify internal resistance to his plans for withdrawal. If the Kurds aren't a viable proxy, there's no longer any sensible reason to keep such a small number of troops in Syria.
In the amusingly named 'Operaton Olive Branch' Turkey meant to attack the Kurds in the Manbij region directly, but Russia and the SAA rapidly moved significant numbers of their own forces between the Turkish advance and the Kurdish forces in order to block hostilities. I don't know if it'd even be possible for them to pull something like this off again but if it were to happen there would be demands that the SDF-held areas fall back under control of the Syrian government, likely granting them some degree of autonomy, but an independent state is totally off the table. -
2019-10-09 at 10:44 PM UTC
Originally posted by Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Genuinely laughed at this. The goal of an empire is not to spread its ideals.
See: Saudi Arabia subsection 69; whahabbism
Originally posted by aldra I'm not a fan of how the Kurds have behave/d in Syria, but in terms of a US foreign policy tool they're in a unique position. There are two problems with providing deep support for the Kurds though:
1. Founding a Kurdish ethnostate or even just military 'satrap' right on the Turkish border will never be tolerated by Turkey. Erdogan's unstable and has a raging murderboner for the Kurds (look into what was found in Cizre after the last 'anti-terrorist' action), and these aren't just any Kurds - these are the YPG, which are the PKK in all but name, which are Turkish Enemy #1. Even if Erdogan were to leave office for whatever reason, Turkey and the PPK have a long history of warfare and terrorism so Turkey's attitude toward them having a stronghold right on their southern border would not change. Turkey's more or less now in NATO in name only and considers this a major matter of their national security, and under Erdogan would quite possibly attack (the small number of) US troops if they were to try to resist.
2. The Kurds in general have been highly opportunistic with no real sense of loyalty. They are not a reliable 'partner' for anyone as their vision seems to be very short-term.
1. The Kurds can be used as a pretense to make Turkey toe the line. They could literally be kicked out of NATO if a case could be made they lost control of the eastern part of their country domestically. The PKK are commie scum but are vulnerable. Trump is folding his fucking hand instead of playing it and seeing the flop at least. Turkey would have to beg to have the US abandon them and I have a feeling Erdogan just sweet talked the orange mutt into abandoning a chance for america to have a foothold. The US has fucking bases there that can be forward operating against Iranian conflict. They could in theory be where the US puts nukes and uses as a strangehold on 3 countries. Turkey acts in Turkeys interests when it comes to the kurds, there's no reason to act in Turkeys interests because it's easier. It's a weak cave.
2. True but they have a longer history with the US than any other power they're friendly with. The US has had people in erbil for years and haven't branched off. This is bad for all kurds and really against the best interests of american foreign policy. Whether or not Kurds have 1000% complete loyalty to uncle Sam, they're a lot more friendly to US interests than literally anyone else whose country they've invaded in fucking ever. -
2019-10-09 at 10:47 PM UTCTrump was recently talking out how the US would train Kurds and as soon as the US soldier issued the Kurd a weapon, the Kurd would turn on the US soldier and kill him and run off with the weapon. Trump said it's happened many times.
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2019-10-09 at 10:51 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Trump was recently talking out how the US would train Kurds and as soon as the US soldier issued the Kurd a weapon, the Kurd would turn on the US soldier and kill him and run off with the weapon. Trump said it's happened many times.
yeah that doesn't make a whole lot of sense -
2019-10-09 at 10:59 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 11:02 PM UTC
Originally posted by -SpectraL Trump was recently talking out how the US would train Kurds and as soon as the US soldier issued the Kurd a weapon, the Kurd would turn on the US soldier and kill him and run off with the weapon. Trump said it's happened many times.
thats obvious bullshit but please post your source -
2019-10-09 at 11:03 PM UTCWhat he was referring to was probably the weapons deliveries being made to 'moderate rebels' who would go on to sell or give the weapons to ISIS, conflating them with the Kurds.
This was by design though, not something that was unintentional or unpredictable.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2019-10-09 at 11:05 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 11:06 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra What he was referring to was probably the weapons deliveries being made to 'moderate rebels' who would go on to sell or give the weapons to ISIS, conflating them with the Kurds.
This was by design though, not something that was unintentional or unpredictable.
kurds also shot a canadian soldier at a checkpoint because they were scared and confused and stupid.
He was probably referring to something fictional he made up to justify the next stupid thing he was going to do -
2019-10-09 at 11:08 PM UTCI've never been on the ORANGE MAN BADwagon, but it honestly seems to me that he's really been losing his grip on reality over the last few weeks
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2019-10-09 at 11:14 PM UTC
Originally posted by aldra I've never been on the ORANGE MAN BADwagon, but it honestly seems to me that he's really been losing his grip on reality over the last few weeks
He's been going full tilt with 5-6 hours sleep a night for the past three years, and under extreme establishment pressure the entire time. Not to mention all the rabid leftist ankle-biters. -
2019-10-09 at 11:15 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sudo 1. The Kurds can be used as a pretense to make Turkey toe the line. They could literally be kicked out of NATO if a case could be made they lost control of the eastern part of their country domestically. The PKK are commie scum but are vulnerable. Trump is folding his fucking hand instead of playing it and seeing the flop at least. Turkey would have to beg to have the US abandon them and I have a feeling Erdogan just sweet talked the orange mutt into abandoning a chance for america to have a foothold. The US has fucking bases there that can be forward operating against Iranian conflict. They could in theory be where the US puts nukes and uses as a strangehold on 3 countries. Turkey acts in Turkeys interests when it comes to the kurds, there's no reason to act in Turkeys interests because it's easier. It's a weak cave.
I don't think Turkey cares whether it's in NATO anymore; like I said it only seems to be in name only nowadays. For the most part it's just a weapons sales racket lately and Turkey's been banned from the F-35 program.
I think a better analogy would be playing chicken considering US/Turkish goals are diametrically opposed and Turnip blinked first. Erdogan is too unpredictable and is likely to trigger a war if he doesn't get his way, and further down the line another war between Iran and israel is inevitable and they (US/israeli) want to prevent Turkey from supporting the Iran, which seems to be what they're leaning toward at the moment.
Originally posted by Sudo 2. True but they have a longer history with the US than any other power they're friendly with. The US has had people in erbil for years and haven't branched off. This is bad for all kurds and really against the best interests of american foreign policy. Whether or not Kurds have 1000% complete loyalty to uncle Sam, they're a lot more friendly to US interests than literally anyone else whose country they've invaded in fucking ever.
I don't really disagree, I just mean that committing to the Kurds would irreparably break ties with Turkey and long-term strategists would have a hard time justifying that given that Kurdish loyalty isn't guaranteed if someone else could potentially make them a better offer. -
2019-10-09 at 11:23 PM UTC
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2019-10-09 at 11:24 PM UTCThat's mostly Afghanistan and to a lesser extent, Iraq. I've not heard of any in the SDF units
