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We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat
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2018-12-24 at 5:15 AM UTC
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2018-12-24 at 5:59 AM UTC
Originally posted by DietPiano Moral Obligation is a function that society imposes on people to get them to act a certain way. Nobody knows what is good and bad.
Well again, if you think that then you've misunderstood what I men when I say "moral obligation", or what OP means by it. A society my claim you have am moral obligation to do something, just as many people in this thread have claimed we have particular moral obligation, but to each claim that you have some moral obligation there is a corresponding truth value, either you do or you don't have that obligation.
As I've said oh so many times now, you may hold that we have no moral obligations at all, but if claim that moral obligations are a matter of opinion, or merely what someone feels to be the case, then you've misunderstood what the word means and how it's being used.@Lanny if there is a universally true moral system, do you expect everyone to conform legally?
No, also as I've said several times, I think in speaking directly to you in fact, there can be all kinds of moral action that shouldn't be enshrined in law, or moral wrongs that shouldn't be legally punishable. -
2018-12-24 at 7:38 AM UTC
Originally posted by DietPiano I said what Obbe just said in different words, which was what I said earlier. Partly because you didn't respond to it.
@Lanny
Moral Obligation is a function that society imposes on people to get them to act a certain way. Nobody knows what is good and bad. There is no non-referential good and bad.
Good and bad only exist to people because it makes them feel differently when they decide to believe in such things. Therefor, morality is based on feelings, not reason. Therfor, a moral obligation is an imposed obligation on someone based on someone else's feelings. Not based on reasons.
Ex. The reason you should do this is to maximize happiness/whateverness.
What is universal happiness? Answer- I don't know. I think it is this and this and this.
Why?
Because that feels better.
The root of morality is feelings. Feelings are subjective. Moral obligations are obligations based on feelings, and not necessarily your own.
@Lanny if there is a universally true moral system, do you expect everyone to conform legally? Peradventure it would increase the maximum happiness/whateverness to do so.(?)
Anyway, nothing can be made better, and nothing can be made worse. If I kick somebody's aunt, that doesn't make the world any better or worse.
Spot the category error, if you are worthy of a proper response. -
2018-12-24 at 5:38 PM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny Well again, if you think that then you've misunderstood what I men when I say "moral obligation", or what OP means by it. A society my claim you have am moral obligation to do something, just as many people in this thread have claimed we have particular moral obligation, but to each claim that you have some moral obligation there is a corresponding truth value, either you do or you don't have that obligation.
As I've said oh so many times now, you may hold that we have no moral obligations at all, but if claim that moral obligations are a matter of opinion, or merely what someone feels to be the case, then you've misunderstood what the word means and how it's being used.
No, also as I've said several times, I think in speaking directly to you in fact, there can be all kinds of moral action that shouldn't be enshrined in law, or moral wrongs that shouldn't be legally punishable.
Yeah, It's been a while since I've posted in this thread, I kind of lost track and forgot where we are. What do you mean by moral obligation? And why is there a universally true moral system? Each situation is unique as there are infinite variables, and nobody morality is subjective.
Maybe the best question to ask is who is "we" in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat.
The thread makes more sense when phrased "I have a moral obligation to stop eating meat, and I think you should too." -
2018-12-24 at 5:40 PM UTCOMGG, this fucking threadd again, gawd can't we just agwee to all be wrtrded and shoot ourselves in the FUCKIN' head????
add vinny response here
k dietpiano I want you toi seeppe -
2018-12-24 at 5:44 PM UTCNow that 'finityshock is banned and vinny (I'm still not convinced it's benny, seems more like a coothill alt) is too depressed to post his happy go lucky drunk loli posting, and aldra and basically everybody else on this website is too apathetic to post anything with a grain of effort because this site is going down the shitter (I still like it, but it truly is, unfortunately), Conflict Shitpile is effectively dead, and this is one of the only threads still worth visiting igThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-25 at 12:54 AM UTC
Originally posted by DietPiano Yeah, It's been a while since I've posted in this thread, I kind of lost track and forgot where we are. What do you mean by moral obligation?
A moral obligation is something that you ought to do, not conditioned upon motivation. There are some things you are obligated to do if you you want to see some result come about. Moral obligations are those things that should be done for their own sake.Each situation is unique as there are infinite variables
We'll save a lot of time if you just go back and read our exchange on exactly this topic.Maybe the best question to ask is who is "we" in We have a moral obligation to stop eating meat.
"we" is anyone with sufficient moral agency. -
2018-12-25 at 4:44 AM UTC
Originally posted by Lanny A moral obligation is something that you ought to do, not conditioned upon motivation. There are some things you are obligated to do if you you want to see some result come about. Moral obligations are those things that should be done for their own sake.
so you mean moral obligations are things that people do for no reason whatsoever ?The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2018-12-25 at 4:51 AM UTC
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2018-12-25 at 4:54 AM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-25 at 4:57 AM UTC
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2018-12-25 at 5 AM UTCi think lannys moral obligation is very different from mine.
and possible some others, -
2018-12-25 at 5:03 AM UTCIt's about pretending moral obligation is real and would we then have to not eat meat. Nobody has an imagination anymore.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-25 at 5:08 AM UTC
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2018-12-25 at 5:14 AM UTC
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2018-12-25 at 1:41 PM UTCI can be bothered to post one so just imagine a picture of a huge turd.
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2018-12-25 at 2:02 PM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2018-12-25 at 2:16 PM UTC
Originally posted by Obbe Nothing should be done for its own sake.
Literally everything happens for its own sake. The special thing about people is that we can also build levels of being that can enable other reasons too.Who decides what sufficient moral agency is?
Everyone else that the agent comes into contact with. But we allow this level of judgment to abstracted away to society because we want to do other things.
You use the roads so you do too, and you also make principally avoidable but practically unavoidable concessions to participate in (and benefit from the membership of) the Moral Agents Club of society. -
2018-12-25 at 2:34 PM UTCI want to discuss roads in detail. Driver's Licenses are a great example of one package of the Moral Agents Club.
When you receive your license, the agreement you sign with the state has certain stipulations, including following the traffic laws, of which you have asserted and demonstrated competence, to not drive in a state where this competence is impaired, and to subject yourself to tests that can ensure that your competence is not impaired.
This is a very direct social contract that you enter, and if you are a sane driver and the laws are made well, you WANT to enter these agreements, because you want everyone who's on the road to be competent and impaired, since you're all participating in an inherently dangerous activity where impaired competence leads to many deaths annually.
Furthermore, if you get pulled over for speeding, you don't WANT to say "oh sorry officer, I'm not morally competent or willing to make these moral concessions and compliances". That's an option, by the way: you can surrender your license. But you don't do that because you want to drive, and if you want to drive, you want to use the benefits of the Moral Agents Club, and to do so, you need to deem yourself morally competent and responsible. For example if you refuse a breathalyser, your license will be revoked. Because if you don't want to confirm your competence, the club doesn't have any reason to believe your assertion that you are sufficiently competent to be on the road.
Your right to drive here is conferred by other people's confidence in your ability to drive. -
2018-12-25 at 3:03 PM UTC
Originally posted by Loing I want to discuss roads in detail. Driver's Licenses are a great example of one package of the Moral Agents Club.
When you receive your license, the agreement you sign with the state has certain stipulations, including following the traffic laws, of which you have asserted and demonstrated competence, to not drive in a state where this competence is impaired, and to subject yourself to tests that can ensure that your competence is not impaired.
This is a very direct social contract that you enter, and if you are a sane driver and the laws are made well, you WANT to enter these agreements, because you want everyone who's on the road to be competent and impaired, since you're all participating in an inherently dangerous activity where impaired competence leads to many deaths annually.
Furthermore, if you get pulled over for speeding, you don't WANT to say "oh sorry officer, I'm not morally competent or willing to make these moral concessions and compliances". That's an option, by the way: you can surrender your license. But you don't do that because you want to drive, and if you want to drive, you want to use the benefits of the Moral Agents Club, and to do so, you need to deem yourself morally competent and responsible. For example if you refuse a breathalyser, your license will be revoked. Because if you don't want to confirm your competence, the club doesn't have any reason to believe your assertion that you are sufficiently competent to be on the road.
Your right to drive here is conferred by other people's confidence in your ability to drive.
no, a license isnt a contract of any kind, its just a token of permission.
