2018-11-01 at 9:39 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Aragorn II and Arwen are first cousins 63 times removed, and that is hardly taboo at all compared to the incest found earlier in their family tree.
2018-11-01 at 9:50 PM UTC
Elves are kinda pussy bitches anyway, that they’re into incest doesn’t seem so surprising
2018-11-01 at 10:05 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
It isn't that they're pussies so much as the fact of their immortality. To begin with, there were only three clans of elves, each descended from a small handful of ancestors. When nobody dies, reproduction slows to a crawl, bloodlines are mingled, and evolutionary pressures are practically nonexistent. Given a few thousand years of this, everybody eventually winds up fucking a relative.
If Tolkien's humans had observed the same partner selection trends seen in Elvish society, they would produce horribly disfigured offspring and die out within a few centuries, maybe faster.
2018-11-01 at 10:10 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
For an Oxford prude, Tolkien sure did write a lot of incest into his most perfect race.
2018-11-01 at 10:27 PM UTC
Your face when the British nobility ran out of cousins to marry so they had to let a black woman marry the future King
2018-11-01 at 10:47 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
While I'm on the subject of human incest: Éowyn's mother, Morwen of Lossarnach, was related to the line of Dol Amroth's princes, the same bloodline from which her eventual husband Faramir is descended on his mother's side. I would guess they're second or third cousins, but I've found there isn't much to trace back on Morwen's heritage.
2018-11-15 at 9:26 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
They are immortal, despite being killed by violence or grief. Incarnate beings in Tolkien's legendarium have both spirit, or fëa, and body, or hröa. Only physiological death occurs when the two are separated. The hröa generally decays in the same way you and I are familiar with, while the fëa dwells in the Halls of Mandos.
For men, this is likely only a short visit before their fëa returns to Eru (God). Elves remain there a while longer before being reincarnated into a new hröa, although they will recover memories of their previous life as they mature and they can still be recognized as the former elf by loved ones. In all but one case, these reincarnated elves dwell in Valinor indefinitely.
The time elves spend in Mandos' waiting room is thought to be contingent on the deeds they committed while alive, as evidenced by the ages-long detention of Fëanor and the expedited reincarnations of Finrod and Glorfindel.
2018-11-15 at 10:12 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Because there isn't a single canonical example of it. We know that the oldest elves in Middle-Earth are 'fading' but we never get to observe it happening in the narrative which is why I didn't include it here. It's a physical, entropic process that the reader is made aware of, but it's one that isn't supposed to be present and there isn't an example of an elf dying as a result of it.
As they were created, in a hypothetical version of Middle-Earth some scholars refer to as Arda Unmarred, elves are not supposed to experience weariness or fading. Instead, Melkor (the Luciferian or demiurgic figure) used his power to corrupt the physical matter of the universe, giving us Arda Marred, which is why the physical body of an elf effectively has a time-limit that is (very conveniently) about three ages long-ish.
When an elf fades, their fëa still goes to the Halls of Mandos and is eventually reincarnated. There is also a concept of what Tolkien calls 'houseless elves' which are those who would refuse the call to Mandos after their bodies fade and instead dwell Middle-Earth as discarnate wraiths. This is possible because their spirits do not die; elves are immortal.
2018-11-15 at 10:44 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
On the other hand, there's a well-established tradition in the earlier years of Númenórean kings that they grow weary of life and choose to die when their heirs are at a peak. I'm comfortable saying it motivates a man to die in a physical sense (although it's not given exactly how this is accomplished) just as it motivates elves to leave for Valinor. But I don't think the condition of weariness is fatal.
2018-11-15 at 11:18 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Wow, how fucked is it that Galadriel's uncle asked for some of her hair? I realize she was widely recognized as beautiful, but what makes this gesture suspect is the fact that physical beauty is generally Tolkien's vehicle for introducing implied sexuality. Fëanor was a creative genius, but he's also responsible for the majority of sin among elves. Also weird is that his grandson tried to bone the same relative.
2018-11-15 at 11:21 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Then again, I think there's a compelling argument to be made that Fëanor objectifies Galadriel's beauty rather than sexualizes it. He's done unspeakable things by the time he reaches Beleriand, but he's still technically married and that's customarily forever among elves. Still, though, Celebrimbor wanted to fuck his aunt.
2018-11-16 at 3:03 AM UTC
Sudo
Black Hole
[my hereto riemannian peach]
I for one am shocked to learn that Zanick cosplays as an elf to engage in incestuous intercourse imagining it's with the sister he hates. Freud would fucking cream his pants too if he could see your wet dreams
2018-11-16 at 6:08 AM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Actually, the sad truth is that all of my wet dreams are about you unstable. Freud would look at me and see a man in love. Would you like to dress up as an elf? We can pretend we're brothers.
2018-11-16 at 3:28 PM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
That would be lovely, I've always wanted to try cocaine and Mr. Freud is a hero of mine. However, you should know that there is a very lively debate within the community of Tolkien scholarship on the subject of whether elves have pointy ears and I tend to think they don't.
2018-11-19 at 7:47 AM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
I don't know how I've just put this together. It's said that Celeborn is kin to Elwë whose younger brother Olwë, probably cousins or something. Given that Galadriel is Olwë's granddaughter, it's possible that she's related to Sindarin royalty by both blood and marriage. When will the incest stop? I still don't get what she saw in him.
Edit: Apparently Elwë is Celeborn's great uncle, which makes Galadriel his cousin twice removed.
2018-11-19 at 8:04 AM UTC
Zanick
motherfucker
[my p.a. supernal goa]
Also, Elrond's wife, Celebrian, is his first cousin twice removed. Particularly meaningful is that Galadriel and Celeborn are her parents. See the above post for an accounting of their blood relationship. Incest begets incest. It's as fashionable for Tolkien as AIDS.
