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Is honey vegan?
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2018-03-26 at 1:50 PM UTCI think so, it's a symbiotic relationship. We build houses for them and keep them clean and happy and in return they pay us in honeycoin
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2018-03-26 at 3:24 PM UTCNo. We could harvest honey in a manner that doesn't harm any bees in theory, but in practice, many are killed. It's not intentional, but the intent isn't how veganism measures harm, the dead bees are.
Also consider that the bees don't want you to take their honey, which really undermines the principle of symbiosis. -
2018-03-26 at 3:50 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick No. We could harvest honey in a manner that doesn't harm any bees in theory, but in practice, many are killed. It's not intentional, but the intent isn't how veganism measures harm, the dead bees are.
Also consider that the bees don't want you to take their honey, which really undermines the principle of symbiosis.
Fuck you and your family -
2018-03-26 at 4:08 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick No. We could harvest honey in a manner that doesn't harm any bees in theory, but in practice, many are killed. It's not intentional, but the intent isn't how veganism measures harm, the dead bees are.
Also consider that the bees don't want you to take their honey, which really undermines the principle of symbiosis.
yeah i'm guessing the wheat doesn't want you taking their ears or the sunflowers aren't wanting you taking their seeds either. you could pretty much apply that to any food.
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2018-03-26 at 4:50 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick Also consider that the bees don't want you to take their honey, which really undermines the principle of symbiosis.
Consent doesn't define symbiosis, mutual benefit does. Whether the bees "want" to have their honey taken in return for human protection of their hive is immaterial. -
2018-03-26 at 5:47 PM UTC
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2018-03-26 at 6:29 PM UTC
Originally posted by HTS Consent doesn't define symbiosis, mutual benefit does. Whether the bees "want" to have their honey taken in return for human protection of their hive is immaterial.
Even with that criteria, it still doesn't work out for the bees. They could instead be in the wild, keeping 100% of their honey through the winter, but instead, we take most or all of it and kill several of them. That's not symbiosis, that's exploitation. -
2018-03-26 at 6:35 PM UTCvegans really are retarded if they cant eat honey
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2018-03-26 at 7:07 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick Even with that criteria, it still doesn't work out for the bees. They could instead be in the wild, keeping 100% of their honey through the winter, but instead, we take most or all of it and kill several of them. That's not symbiosis, that's exploitation.
but would they thrive so well in the wild to what they do with humans looking after them. i suspect not.
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2018-03-26 at 7:08 PM UTC
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2018-03-26 at 7:17 PM UTC
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2018-03-26 at 8:41 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick Mostly they just need a stable climate where they can nest and thrive as a colony. What do you think humans provide for them?
cutting down their natural habitat to make way for crops is probably responsible for killing billions of them. add to that the carnage caused by pesticides and genetic modification.
as a responsible and committed vegan you really shouldn't be eating vegetable, grain or fruit products due to the harm, suffering and slaughter caused to many animals and insects by farming methods.
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2018-03-26 at 8:56 PM UTC
Originally posted by Zanick Mostly they just need a stable climate where they can nest and thrive as a colony. What do you think humans provide for them?
We treat hive parasites like wax eating caterpillars, defend the hive from predators after their larva etc. Also provide them with nice, relatively well insulated bee houses for overwintering.
And for the record, I agree it's not necessarily symbiotic, but it's not because "muh bees don't want us to take their honey". -
2018-03-26 at 8:56 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist cutting down their natural habitat to make way for crops is probably responsible for killing billions of them. add to that the carnage caused by pesticides and genetic modification.
as a responsible and committed vegan you really shouldn't be eating vegetable, grain or fruit products due to the harm, suffering and slaughter caused to many animals and insects by farming methods.
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Or perhaps only eating self-produced... Produce. -
2018-03-26 at 9:15 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ Or perhaps only eating self-produced… Produce.
if you clear any area to plant crops, even a few square feet, then you are going to be responsible for the destruction of the habitat of anything that lives there. which will equate to the destruction of anything that lives there pretty much.
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2018-03-26 at 9:25 PM UTCHoney comes from plants. It is not an animal product. The "morality" is irrelevant.
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2018-03-26 at 9:27 PM UTC
Originally posted by NARCassist if you clear any area to plant crops, even a few square feet, then you are going to be responsible for the destruction of the habitat of anything that lives there. which will equate to the destruction of anything that lives there pretty much.
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I think you could successfully make a garden without killing anything or destroying a habitat that can't easily be relocated to by the same bugs and worms just having to move a few feet away.
There's also of course hydroponics if nothing else. -
2018-03-26 at 9:32 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ I think you could successfully make a garden without killing anything or destroying a habitat that can't easily be relocated to by the same bugs and worms just having to move a few feet away.
There's also of course hydroponics if nothing else.
maybe to feed one or two people, but even then you'd be killing something. what about nests containing eggs or young that are unable to move? but when it comes to feeding the world just on vegetables just to save killing animals then it becomes a contradiction as that involves large scale industrial farming methods which is damaging to the habitats of not just the animals and insects that live there but the other animals that feed on them or whatever flora was there beforehand. either way there is no getting away from the killing of animals, however idealistic you want to get about it.
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2018-03-26 at 9:49 PM UTC
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2018-03-26 at 9:51 PM UTCTrue.
What about if every citizen was issued a greenhouse and the materials and seeds to sustain their household's diet?
