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Freedom of Religion vs Freedom from Relgion
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2016-09-13 at 3:35 PM UTCWhere does a persons freedom of religion end and another persons freedom from religion begin?
Should people be free to practice and express their religious beliefs? At what point does a persons freedom to express their religion begin to infringe on another persons freedom from religion?
I don't believe anti-abortionists should show/mail people pictures of mutilated fetuses. That's disgusting, rude, disrespectful behavior. And I think people who cover their faces with veils should have to show their face and prove their identity when getting a picture taken for their government issued identification cards/books, or when being detained by police.
Ideally, people should be able to practice their religious beliefs without breaking laws or common decency, and their religious practices should be personal and should not affect the general population. However, some people truly believe they have a duty to change the world and make the world accept their religious beliefs. At what point does speaking about religious topics become harassment or bullying?
Is it even possible to resolve issues like this in a way that both religious people and non-religious people are happy and satisfied, or is conflict inevitable? -
2016-09-13 at 3:43 PM UTCBy personal do you mean no praying in public? Because I wholeheartedly dissagree. Im outraged that a teacher from the highschool i went to got fired for praying in class because some students joined in and a bumch of atheists got offended. If religion is banned in schools, homosexuality should also be banned and all gay teachers fired.
im also catholic -
2016-09-13 at 3:52 PM UTCWell I don't really know. I feel like a teacher praying in class is sort of harmless, but on the other hand, sort of inappropriate. Is it inevitable that people will offend each other by doing or not doing certain religious things, or is there a way for us to live in this world where people of various religious or non-religious beliefs can cooperate and coexist without starting fights and getting each other fired?
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2016-09-13 at 4:13 PM UTCthat feel when eating peyote and smoking meth are part of my cultural and religious heritage.
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2016-09-13 at 5:58 PM UTCYou should be free to practice any religion you like, and i should be free to bash your religion as often as i want. As long as we both agree not to be physically violent, there is no problem here.
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2016-09-13 at 6:03 PM UTCWhat is relgion
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2016-09-13 at 6:08 PM UTCDissociator re your post because I can't quote it, I think the LGBT argument about toilets going on atm in America is retarded. If you have a penis, you use the men's toilets. If you have a vagina, you use the women's toilets. Just because someone dislikes what genitals they were born with, doesn't mean they should be able to use the other genders toilets. And people get angry about this and say trannys should use whatever toilet they identify with. No. What about the other people having to use those toilets, I doubt a little girl wants to see some freak whack out his dong in her toilets just because he claims to be female on the inside.
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2016-09-13 at 6:11 PM UTC
You should be free to practice any religion you like, and i should be free to bash your religion as often as i want. As long as we both agree not to be physically violent, there is no problem here.
What about people whose religious views are inherently violent or oppressive? Or what if I moved right next door to you and turned my house into a large elaborate church and there was never anywhere to park your car on the street anymore because all the church goers park there and we listen to loud religious music all day and distributed pictures of aborted fetuses to the neighborhood daily? And on the other side, how far is too far when it comes to bashing a persons religion? Is there a point where it can turn into abuse or harassment, even if it's not violent? Is it acceptable that a teacher can be fired because their praying offended some atheists? -
2016-09-13 at 6:41 PM UTC
What about people whose religious views are inherently violent or oppressive?
I don't care if you consider everyone who doesn't believe what you believe an infidel worthy of murder. As long as you don't murder me.Or what if I moved right next door to you and turned my house into a large elaborate church and there was never anywhere to park your car on the street anymore because all the church goers park there and we listen to loud religious music all day and distributed pictures of aborted fetuses to the neighborhood daily?
Well, everyone would sell their house(Or move out of their rented apartments) and reduce the market value of the property around the obnoxious church. So either of two things will happen. 1. Before anything gets built the tenants are going to complain to the owner of the property and he is going to sue the city, for giving the permit to build the church there because he stands to lose a lot of money if everyone moves out. Or 2, people will move and the real estate agencies will be unable to sell the property so again they'll sue the city for damages on account of the city giving the permit.And on the other side, how far is too far when it comes to bashing a persons religion? Is there a point where it can turn into abuse or harassment, even if it's not violent? Is it acceptable that a teacher can be fired because their praying offended some atheists?
Sure is acceptable. It's not haram, forgive the pun. But i am of the opinion all schools should be privately owned and private companies should have the right to hire or fire anyone they wish for any single reason they can think of. Also please refrain from making the hurr durr muh racism argument because if you have two bakeries and one only serves white people and the other serves everyone at the end of the day the bakery that serves everyone is going to make more money and drive the racist bakery out of business. -
2016-09-13 at 6:46 PM UTCWell that all seems reasonable and acceptable.
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2016-09-13 at 6:48 PM UTC
Well that all seems reasonable and acceptable.
Holy crap we actually agree :) -
2016-09-15 at 4:22 AM UTCI don't think anyone should be given special privileges just because of their religion. If something like wearing a veil interferes with having your photo taken it shouldn't be allow and if it doesn't then everyone should be allow to do it.
It's ridiculous how conservatives cry when they aren't allow to discriminate against people and they try to claim that christians are being persecuted when they get so much special treatment because of their religion.
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2016-09-15 at 4:39 AM UTC
Dissociator re your post because I can't quote it, I think the LGBT argument about toilets going on atm in America is retarded. If you have a penis, you use the men's toilets. If you have a vagina, you use the women's toilets. Just because someone dislikes what genitals they were born with, doesn't mean they should be able to use the other genders toilets. And people get angry about this and say trannys should use whatever toilet they identify with. No. What about the other people having to use those toilets, I doubt a little girl wants to see some freak whack out his dong in her toilets just because he claims to be female on the inside.
How would you know if someone is trans or not? Not all trans-people are obvious.
Are we going to have to show our drivers licenses to use the bathroom? You can get that changed, quite easily in some states. Are you gonna have to drop your pants for inspection before you're allowed in XD? That doesn't account for someone who's post-op. Even a chromosome test wouldn't be 100% accurate if we take intersex people into consideration.
And if you're worried about guys using the girls room what about ftm's who you'd never guess where born female by looking at them? Are they going to forced into the ladies room too? What's to stop some cis-guy from claiming he was born a woman to get in? -
2016-09-15 at 5:09 AM UTCI don't care who uses what bathrooms but I am religiously discriminated against if I want to snort a few lines of meth off the back of the toilet. Clearly, all laws interfere with liberty and freedom.
[FONT=alright_sansmediumitalic][SIZE=16px]Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.[/SIZE][/FONT]
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2016-09-15 at 11:21 AM UTC
How would you know if someone is trans or not? Not all trans-people are obvious.
Are we going to have to show our drivers licenses to use the bathroom? You can get that changed, quite easily in some states. Are you gonna have to drop your pants for inspection before you're allowed in XD? That doesn't account for someone who's post-op. Even a chromosome test wouldn't be 100% accurate if we take intersex people into consideration.
And if you're worried about guys using the girls room what about ftm's who you'd never guess where born female by looking at them? Are they going to forced into the ladies room too? What's to stop some cis-guy from claiming he was born a woman to get in?
Here is what i think we should do, i don't care if you like boys or girls or both. If you were born a man but are convinced you are a woman you should get treatment for your mental disorder. Now if you were born as a man but want to dress like a woman, that's your business but you are genetically the gender you are born with and therefore should use the toilet associated with your biological gender. Just because some people are schizophrenic and believe they are god doesn't mean we should build them a temple. Instead they get treatment for their mental health issues. I also don't care what the law says, but you should probably be advised that if you're a guy wearing a dress and you go into the same toilet as a little girl that her daddy will probably punch you in the face, can't say that i don't understand where he would be coming from either tbh. -
2016-09-15 at 11:24 AM UTC[SIZE=72px]FUCK METAPHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION. YOU ARENT INTELLECTUALS HERE. YOU ARE BROKEN FUCKING PRODUCTS OF A BROKEN FUCKING SYSTEM.[/SIZE]
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2016-09-15 at 1:35 PM UTC
Here is what i think we should do, i don't care if you like boys or girls or both. If you were born a man but are convinced you are a woman you should get treatment for your mental disorder. Now if you were born as a man but want to dress like a woman, that's your business but you are genetically the gender you are born with and therefore should use the toilet associated with your biological gender. Just because some people are schizophrenic and believe they are god doesn't mean we should build them a temple. Instead they get treatment for their mental health issues. I also don't care what the law says, but you should probably be advised that if you're a guy wearing a dress and you go into the same toilet as a little girl that her daddy will probably punch you in the face, can't say that i don't understand where he would be coming from either tbh.
I have a question: why do you think believing you are transgender is a mental disorder but pedophilia is not? Aren't they basically the same sort of thing? Like, someone could use a similar argument and state that just because someone is mentally disturbed and believe children want to have sex with them doesn't mean we should legalize sex with children - instead they should get treatment for their mental health issues.
You seem like a reasonable person most of the time. Can you explain your reasoning behind this? -
2016-09-15 at 3:41 PM UTC
I have a question: why do you think believing you are transgender is a mental disorder but pedophilia is not? Aren't they basically the same sort of thing? Like, someone could use a similar argument and state that just because someone is mentally disturbed and believe children want to have sex with them doesn't mean we should legalize sex with children - instead they should get treatment for their mental health issues.
You seem like a reasonable person most of the time. Can you explain your reasoning behind this?
Pedophilia is a sexual preference, i don't have a problem with people having a sexual preference for one thing or another for men or women, boys or girls. Also i don't just think young people want to have sex with older people, children become sexually active right at the start of puberty. When i was 18 i dated a 12yo girl, we had sex as well and she was the one pursuing it the most actively out of the two of us. When i was twelve myself i probably would have had sex with an 18yo girl myself if the opportunity had arisen. Furthermore there is an evolutionary advantage to being attracted to young girls. They are the most fertile during puberty and historically people didn't get to be really old due to disease and accidents because of the lack of medical science. With regards to the law, if a relationship is mutually consensual between a young girl and an older guy or the other way around, there is no moral imperative to outlaw it. Transgenderism is a gender identity issue not one of sexual preference. ItÅ› comparing apples to oranges. I will expand later if you would like me to, for now i have an appointment. Be back in a couple hours. -
2016-09-15 at 6:56 PM UTC
Here is what i think we should do, i don't care if you like boys or girls or both. If you were born a man but are convinced you are a woman you should get treatment for your mental disorder. Now if you were born as a man but want to dress like a woman, that's your business but you are genetically the gender you are born with and therefore should use the toilet associated with your biological gender. Just because some people are schizophrenic and believe they are god doesn't mean we should build them a temple. Instead they get treatment for their mental health issues. I also don't care what the law says, but you should probably be advised that if you're a guy wearing a dress and you go into the same toilet as a little girl that her daddy will probably punch you in the face, can't say that i don't understand where he would be coming from either tbh.
Well hormones are a treatment for gender dysphoria. Trying to change a person's mind to match their body doesn't work. Transgender people literally have a brain thats more similar to the gender they identify as than their birth gender.
And my point in my first post is how will you know what sex someone is genetically? If they pass very well you wouldn't be able to tell what bathroom they should be using.
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2016-09-15 at 7:13 PM UTC
Transgenderism is a gender identity issue not one of sexual preference. ItÅ› comparing apples to oranges. I will expand later if you would like me to, for now i have an appointment. Be back in a couple hours.
Sure, that would be appreciated.
Why should pedophilia be considered a sexual preference rather than a mental disorder? Is it possible for something like pedophilia or objectophilia to be both, like a sexual preference that is caused by a mental disorder? According to wikipedia, pedophilia is considered to be a psychiatric disorder. Can you show reasons why we should consider that to be not true?
My position is not that transgenderism is a sexual preference; rather it is that if it makes sense to consider a person to have a type of mental disorder if they have an irregular gender identity, than it should also make sense to consider a person to have a type mental disorder if they have an irregular sexual preference, should it not? Both our gender identity and our sexual preferences should, I imagine, have something to do with specific structures in our brains. Therefore irregularities in our gender identities or sexual preferences (as well as numerous other things like personality traits and disorders) should correspond to irregularities in the brain structures. This is a reasonable position to have, is it not?
