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Time difference sucks.
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2015-08-29 at 9:53 PM UTCHere i am around midnight and everyone in the states is probably out partying. I mean, i had stuff to do tonight as well, i went to the movies it was ok but now i am just sitting here pressing F5. I suppose i could go watch the last Hannibal or Mr. Robot. In fact if i don't think of anything better to do i'll probably go ahead and do that.
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2015-08-29 at 9:59 PM UTCI know that feel bro. Even just keeping a somewhat late schedule on the west coast means most of the internet is dead within an hour or two of me getting online.
Also at work we have an offshore team in india. I rarely have to interact with them thankfully but some of my coworkers have to call in at like midnight to catch them when they're awake. Shit is crazy, like I know indian programmers are cheap and all but it seems like between overworking your employees (and needing to compensate them for it since it's such a seller's market) and the lost efficiency of generally undertrained employees, communication issues, and synchronization problems I don't think it pays off at all. -
2015-08-29 at 10:04 PM UTC
I know that feel bro. Even just keeping a somewhat late schedule on the west coast means most of the internet is dead within an hour or two of me getting online.
Also at work we have an offshore team in india. I rarely have to interact with them thankfully but some of my coworkers have to call in at like midnight to catch them when they're awake. Shit is crazy, like I know indian programmers are cheap and all but it seems like between overworking your employees (and needing to compensate them for it since it's such a seller's market) and the lost efficiency of generally undertrained employees, communication issues, and synchronization problems I don't think it pays off at all.
Word, well i suppose it does pay off at least a little because i can't imagine a company purposefully extending practices that would result in a net loss in terms of profits. But hey, lan lan, don't there live a lot of people on the west coats as well? -
2015-08-30 at 12:25 AM UTC
Word, well i suppose it does pay off at least a little because i can't imagine a company purposefully extending practices that would result in a net loss in terms of profits.
At least where I work, there are so many levels of management between devs and people who make the call on offshore development no one knows what the fuck is going on. Or maybe they do and it really does work out, I can't honestly say how cheaply offshore teams work, but I certainly have my doubts. I got a figure the other day, I'm not sure how well it holds up across areas, but it was that, based on by-line and by-commit analysis of the codebase, about 5% of the work done is done by the offshore team while the onshore team consists of less than 20 people. I know at least 5 devs on the offshore team are assigned to work on this project. 5% of the total work corresponds to about one onshore dev so that would mean they have to be paying offshore less than one third of what they pay onshore (and probably less because god only knows how many offshore devs are actually drawing a paycheck for this work). Which is to say nothing of the quality issues that come out of the process (admittedly I'm basing that on pretty limited information). I mean it's possible the figures work out but what I think is far more likely is that offshore is a big money hole that just looks good on paper because you can say "look, here's 20 developers for the cost of 10 onshore developers" and executives don't grasp the vast gulfs of difference in competence that mark software engineering.
Then again maybe I'm just a bitter cunt bemoaning jobs going overseas. Who knows.But hey, lan lan, don't there live a lot of people on the west coats as well?
Yeah, the PST timezone is heavily populated but even then most people are in bed/offline by midnight local time so if you're up after that even "fast moving" sites tend to slow to a crawl. I mean like front page of reddit is still going but that's not where I am. The US surge of internet activity is largely dead by midnight PST. -
2015-08-30 at 12:41 AM UTC
At least where I work, there are so many levels of management between devs and people who make the call on offshore development no one knows what the fuck is going on. Or maybe they do and it really does work out, I can't honestly say how cheaply offshore teams work, but I certainly have my doubts. I got a figure the other day, I'm not sure how well it holds up across areas, but it was that, based on by-line and by-commit analysis of the codebase, about 5% of the work done is done by the offshore team while the onshore team consists of less than 20 people. I know at least 5 devs on the offshore team are assigned to work on this project. 5% of the total work corresponds to about one onshore dev so that would mean they have to be paying offshore less than one third of what they pay onshore (and probably less because god only knows how many offshore devs are actually drawing a paycheck for this work). Which is to say nothing of the quality issues that come out of the process (admittedly I'm basing that on pretty limited information). I mean it's possible the figures work out but what I think is far more likely is that offshore is a big money hole that just looks good on paper because you can say "look, here's 20 developers for the cost of 10 onshore developers" and executives don't grasp the vast gulfs of difference in competence that mark software engineering.
If you put it like that it does make more sense, you'd think that they'd hire a person to oversee all these shenanigans so that the execs actually know what the fuck is going on with their money, your products and the company in general.Then again maybe I'm just a bitter cunt bemoaning jobs going overseas. Who knows.
I wouldn't blame you. This is one of the reasons why the US government should make it cheaper for US based companies to hire domestically by decreasing the overhead faced by employeres these days.Yeah, the PST timezone is heavily populated but even then most people are in bed/offline by midnight local time so if you're up after that even "fast moving" sites tend to slow to a crawl. I mean like front page of reddit is still going but that's not where I am. The US surge of internet activity is largely dead by midnight PST.
It's pretty insane to think actually that most of the internet traffic flat out stops when america goes to bed lol. -
2015-08-30 at 1:10 AM UTCTinyChat stays awake....usually! #wewillwaitforpst
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2015-08-30 at 1:35 AM UTC
I wouldn't blame you. This is one of the reasons why the US government should make it cheaper for US based companies to hire domestically by decreasing the overhead faced by employeres these days.
tarrifs. /discussion.
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2015-08-30 at 2:09 AM UTC
tarrifs. /discussion.
NAFTA -
2015-08-30 at 2:23 AM UTC
NAFTA
NAMBLA -
2015-08-30 at 2:41 AM UTC
NAMBLA
North American Marlon Brando Look Alike? -
2015-08-30 at 2:51 AM UTC
tarrifs. /discussion.
I don't really know what you're trying to say here but it seems like you're proposing tariffs as a solution to outsourcing of work. Assuming we consider outsourcing to be an issue (which is up in the air as far as I'm concerned) it's worth pointing out that tariffs are a classical example of government intervention in the free market which, based on what you've posted so far, is in direct opposition to the economic ideas you've voiced support for so far. -
2015-08-30 at 3:02 AM UTCI was pretty much saying to sophie that his ideas about promoting domestic employment, and then tariffs, would fix pretty much everything wrong with employment in america right now.. then I signaled that I wanted to end the discussion, because this thread is boring.
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2015-08-30 at 3:08 AM UTCOk, but I would think you would be opposed to tariffs because they are fundamentally government intervention in the free market. Me, I'm perfectly willing to endorse them as a legitimate tool if they're needed but then I don't think there's any issue with restricting freedoms for the greater good. I don't think there's any amount of mental gymnastics you can do where you both endorse tariffs (the government functionally setting prices on imported goods, contrary to the free market) and reduced government control/no government control/anarchy.
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2015-08-30 at 3:24 AM UTC
Ok, but I would think you would be opposed to tariffs because they are fundamentally government intervention in the free market. Me, I'm perfectly willing to endorse them as a legitimate tool if they're needed but then I don't think there's any issue with restricting freedoms for the greater good. I don't think there's any amount of mental gymnastics you can do where you both endorse tariffs (the government functionally setting prices on imported goods, contrary to the free market) and reduced government control/no government control/anarchy.
well, see I am not totally over on the anarchist side. I am just far right, and the US would have to have at least some sort of basic structure set up to handle border issues, trade relations and diplomacy, and other necessities. The point is to try to have a stripped-down government that is still functional. Only the most essential functions would be governed by 'the fed' or whatever it would be called. I mean, just because I envision a world where every man is free to control his own affairs, reality would dictate that I make some concessions to align with my nativist and patriotic tendencies. In other words, fuck mexicans, chinese, and sub-saharan africans. Also eskimos. I guess what I mean is, I don't consider certain primitive peoples as equal to others. So there's that. -
2015-08-30 at 4:14 AM UTCThere is no sentence that can more concisely summarize the history of the US political atmosphere than "Government that governs only as necessary finds more and more to be necessary" (alternatively: "Roosevelt ass raped the supreme court into forming a government that actually worked").
Why exactly are curtailing trade freedoms more important than things like ensuring the safety and longevity of citizens (including polices like universal healthcare, state controlled police forces, prohibition of certain hazardous substances)? Who decides what is and isn't important enough for the government to legislate? -
2015-08-30 at 4:22 AM UTCI guess that sort of thing would be up to the individual states, and however they decide to organize and execute their vision of how they want to govern themselves. if there has to be an overarching federal government, it should be limited to command and control of border enforcement and military affairs. with appropriate checks and balances, of course.
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2015-08-30 at 4:28 AM UTCBut why do border enforcement and military have a special status while other things do not? Why isn't universal healthcare a primary concern of the state? If you ask me that's far more important.
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2015-08-30 at 4:43 AM UTC
Ok, but I would think you would be opposed to tariffs because they are fundamentally government intervention in the free market. Me, I'm perfectly willing to endorse them as a legitimate tool if they're needed but then I don't think there's any issue with restricting freedoms for the greater good. I don't think there's any amount of mental gymnastics you can do where you both endorse tariffs (the government functionally setting prices on imported goods, contrary to the free market) and reduced government control/no government control/anarchy.
Tarrifs are necessary to ensure the market's viability. If nations had no tarrifs richer more developed nation's markets would be destroyed by cheap foreign labor. Simply put if an item can be made for $1.00 in your market by your labor force but can be made for $.10 in a foreign market economic security for the people whom the government is responsible for dictates that a fair tariff be imposed upon the goods imported from the nation with the cheaper labor source. A fair tariff in this scenario would be one that that raised the retail price by $.90 cents. That way both the domestically produced goods and the foreign produced goods will be sold at prices which are competitive with one another. Without fair tarrifs corporations would rape both nations by under paying workers in developing markets and decimating the manufacturing sectors of developed markets all for their own profit. -
2015-08-30 at 4:44 AM UTC
But why do border enforcement and military have a special status while other things do not? Why isn't universal healthcare a primary concern of the state? If you ask me that's far more important.
because 'universal health care' is not essential to the survival of the nation. do you really think that people will just suffer with no heathcare or something? you act like just because I think that 99% of government is unnecessary and parasitic, that we would live like barbarians out in the woods, dying at age 40 or something. No matter what you may think of americans in general, we are the most advanced and ingenius people on the planet. I am sure we can easily balance maintaining our complex modern conveniences with the practice of allowing people to live unmolested by government.. -
2015-08-30 at 4:45 AM UTC
But why do border enforcement and military have a special status while other things do not? Why isn't universal healthcare a primary concern of the state? If you ask me that's far more important.
By universal health care do you mean everyone gets the same level of care regardless of what they produce?
