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13 step programme
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2022-07-14 at 8:43 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Yes I get the theory, I just don't accept it as valid. Again there is NO higher power than the self…"Passing the buck" is not a good way to get over something, acceptance of your shortcomings and then doing what you need to so to build the strength to overcome those shortcomings is > than any fairy tale "higher power".
If you don't believe in higher powers, be that a god/deity/or the rich fella down the street then it's impossible to submit to one..and I don't believe there is a higher power than myself.
If I have unhealthy desires such as taking drink/drugs/killing hookers etc then chit chatting to a higher power isn't going to solve anything…as no matter what the higher power came up with..my self will is going to say "Fuck that, what do you know…pretty sure I know myself better than you do buddy/buddette/Buddha"
It all falls back into the personal responsibility category…you only have yourself to blame and only you can fix it.
You clearly don't have any idea of the principles of 12 step programs. You're just trying to find a rigid, narrow, fraudulent definition so you can dismiss it.
It's pretty funny You're literally identifying principles from the program such as a personal inventory and then just going on fedorically about how because their is a mention of a "higher power" that you have a hard time with, using that to dismiss the many other aspects of the program.
I don't have much Love for 12 step programs but trying to dismiss something you don't know anything about because you're an atheist is super cringe. -
2022-07-14 at 8:52 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sudo You clearly don't have any idea of the principles of 12 step programs. You're just trying to find a rigid, narrow, fraudulent definition so you can dismiss it.
It's pretty funny You're literally identifying principles from the program such as a personal inventory and then just going on fedorically about how because their is a mention of a "higher power" that you have a hard time with, using that to dismiss the many other aspects of the program.
I don't have much Love for 12 step programs but trying to dismiss something you don't know anything about because you're an atheist is super cringe.
Well I do know something about it as mentioned...my ex was on it...she felt exactly the same as me..waste of time and only for the weak.
You HAVE to have a belief in a higher power to complete the 12 steps...if you DONT believe in a higher power...you can't compelte the steps...it's all pretty simple.
Lets look at them
Step 1
We admitted we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
RIGHT away it's a defeatist attitude...admit you are powerless...pathetically weak! YOU have the power to overcome anything.
Step 2
We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Delusion..."Uh I can't help myself it's upto some unseen force to fix me.
Step 3
We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
A DIRECT REFERENCE TO GOD...gtfo
Step 4
We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Yeah..that's useful.
Step 5
We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
..that god word again...
Step 6
We were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
..that god word again...
Step 7
We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Asking god to fix us...SMH
Step 8
We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
lololol Yeah this will stop me drinking 2 bottles of brandy a day.
Step 9
We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Yeah! lets drink to it!
Step 10
We continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Wow..still only 2 nuts and 1 willy...
Step 11
We sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
More god references
Step 12
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
The only spiritual awakening I need after all this bullshit is a double whiskey
Jesus wept, what a crock of shit... -
2022-07-14 at 8:55 PM UTCNormal people don't believe me when I say I do drugs
Na/AA people don't like me because I think cocaine should be legal. If it's legal it doesn't mean you have to do itThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-07-14 at 9:58 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Well I do know something about it as mentioned…my ex was on it…she felt exactly the same as me..waste of time and only for the weak.
You HAVE to have a belief in a higher power to complete the 12 steps…if you DONT believe in a higher power…you can't compelte the steps…it's all pretty simple.
Lets look at them
Step 1
We admitted we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
RIGHT away it's a defeatist attitude…admit you are powerless…pathetically weak! YOU have the power to overcome anything.
Step 2
We came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Delusion…"Uh I can't help myself it's upto some unseen force to fix me.
Step 3
We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
A DIRECT REFERENCE TO GOD…gtfo
Step 4
We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Yeah..that's useful.
Step 5
We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
..that god word again…
Step 6
We were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
..that god word again…
Step 7
We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Asking god to fix us…SMH
Step 8
We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
lololol Yeah this will stop me drinking 2 bottles of brandy a day.
Step 9
We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Yeah! lets drink to it!
Step 10
We continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Wow..still only 2 nuts and 1 willy…
Step 11
We sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
More god references
Step 12
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
The only spiritual awakening I need after all this bullshit is a double whiskey
Jesus wept, what a crock of shit…
Why did you type all this just to say nothing? You're basically just saying your feelings about something you don't know about and are not in a target demographic of. That's cool, you don't believe in God and don't understand the tenants of the program at face value as someone who is not afflicted with addiction.
There are also literally millions of people with an acute understanding that the program targets that herald the program as a success, which I think it's pretty safe to say it has been.
It's not for everyone but to question the effectiveness of a program that has 80 something years or so of worldwide success because you have issue with some of the introductory language is pretty silly. It's like saying you feel like you have more money than Elon Musk because you felt something he said about business is wrong. Facts are facts and your atheist feelings are yours alone you big Ole deity you! -
2022-07-14 at 10:02 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sudo You sound really informed
In fact I am. I’ve been exposed to AA and NA since childhood, and even then I knew it was a joke.
#realtalk you’re never going to overcome any addiction if you refuse to take responsibility for your actions and make the necessary changes. Having a trusted friend, sober or otherwise, to talk to can and does help…but no one is lifting the bottle or pipe to your mouth or the needle to your arm but you.
People relapse because they choose to relapse…..nothing more…nothing less.
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Additionally what kind of life lesson is it to suggest to people "Hey, put yourself in XXX hands rather than assume the responsibility yourself"…
Fucking millenials!
Absofuckinglutely correct.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-07-15 at 12:08 PM UTC
Originally posted by Sudo Why did you type all this just to say nothing?
Um look at it again...I addressed every step.There are also literally millions of people with an acute understanding that the program targets that herald the program as a success, which I think it's pretty safe to say it has been.
There are billions of people who believe in god, astrology, ghosts, ufos...etc etc...that doesn't qualify those subjects as legit.
Also if you need "Acute understanding" then that just doubles down on how shit a program it is, a program is supposed to be simple to understand and follow...not needing "expert" interpretation
You completely miss the point. The 12 steps focus on a god/higher power...you're excluding a WHOLE BUNCH of people with that proviso... -
2022-07-15 at 12:15 PM UTCAtheists pieces of SHIT have it all figured out so they would never have a need for such a program.
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2022-07-15 at 12:16 PM UTCI'm with jig on this one. aA is a cult.
But also I'm not saying a cult is necessarily a bad thing. -
2022-07-15 at 12:19 PM UTCHere's a better SHORTER step program
1. Seek medical advice, not some other dropouts advice that the court told you you had to go hang out with.
2. avoid other drug addled idiots...don't hang out with them in groups where you can all enable each other and laugh at their stories.
3. Get some personal responsibility and will power
4. If you fall off the horse get back on it
5. Get a new set of friends, dump the ones that are a bad influence on you.
6. Get some hobbies to occupy your time.
7. If you feel the need to take something, take a fuckin nap instead.
All those are more useful than the "Pray to your maker" ones in the 12 stepsThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-07-15 at 12:20 PM UTCThe following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2022-07-15 at 12:23 PM UTC
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2022-07-15 at 12:25 PM UTC
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2022-07-15 at 12:29 PM UTCBottom line….if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Whatever works for each individual works. No need to shove anything down anyones throat.
Some people do fine without the aid of a “program” probably way more than anyone is even aware of since there aren’t really any statistics surrounding those who clean up their lives on their own.
Reality is most “programs” have a very low overall success rate.
As I said, no one’s holding a gun to anyones head forcing them to drink or use. People get clean and sober in a variety of ways. People also “relapse” and that’s their choice.
I’ve watched people brainwashed by these “programs” become literal self fulfilling prophecies…..they became so convinced that they’d literally die if they pick up, that they ultimately died as a result of their addictions. The program ingrained the message in these weak minded vulnerable individuals to the point that they literally ultimately killed themselves.
If you really want to be clean and sober you’ll do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. Program or no program. The problem I have with these “groups” is judgmental people selling the My Way or the Highway mentality. Literally brainwashing weak minded individuals into believing that if they don’t do exactly as the program is laid out they’re doomed to fail….
I think many actually bring failure on themselves because they literally believed that crock of shit.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-07-15 at 12:30 PM UTCBrainwashing is the perfect term...you're replacing one evil with another. "You have no control so hand yourself over to us and your god"The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire!
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2022-07-15 at 12:36 PM UTC
Originally posted by mmQ I'm with jig on this one. aA is a cult.
But also I'm not saying a cult is necessarily a bad thing.
cult
noun
noun: cult; plural noun: cults
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
It doesn’t really sound to me like a good thing 🤔
Definitely not something I’d be willing to be part of. -
2022-07-15 at 12:47 PM UTC
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2022-07-15 at 12:48 PM UTC
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2022-07-15 at 1 PM UTC
Originally posted by Jiggaboo_Johnson Um look at it again…I addressed every step.
There are billions of people who believe in god, astrology, ghosts, ufos…etc etc…that doesn't qualify those subjects as legit.
Also if you need "Acute understanding" then that just doubles down on how shit a program it is, a program is supposed to be simple to understand and follow…not needing "expert" interpretation
You completely miss the point. The 12 steps focus on a god/higher power…you're excluding a WHOLE BUNCH of people with that proviso…
1. You're trying to narrowly define a higher power to dismiss it.
2. You're pretending that the success of the program is not measured in actual results, but rather in how you feel about it
3. You don't have addiction issues so that's just like your completely unfounded opinion man
4. You're a cute
5. The most important aspect is a "searching andbfearless moral inventory " which is basically a reassessment of your values, responsibilities, introspective analysis of your addiction issues etc
6. Asking a doctor for advice on addiction is usually pretty fucking naive and laughable. A doctor I had as a kid was doing coke, drinking and banging patients in his office, then went to a rehab I later went to...twice and is now a big proponent for AA. He told me (when I was at the rehab he went to and he is the visiting physician) that it's basically the only way he's seen that consistently works.
7. Like 4 of the steps have to do with personal responsibility
8. Thr first step has to do with chanelling will power
9. Just copying and pasting intro literature just makes you look like a super fedora
Originally posted by mmQ I'm with jig on this one. aA is a cult.
But also I'm not saying a cult is necessarily a bad thing.
It's definitely a bunch of circle jerking victims drinking shitty coffee in church basements, it does however have a high degree of success for a certain kind of addict.The following users say it would be alright if the author of this post didn't die in a fire! -
2022-07-15 at 1:02 PM UTC
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2022-07-15 at 1:09 PM UTCNiS is circle jerk cult. Chain ourselves to the triangle. Do meth shots. Eat a bunny .
You just made me extra realize that. We all do that we all drink coffee and donuts and talk amongst one another. They're goal is to win you are heart. Rebuke the others take in the life
Repeat x4
