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Now that Enter is gay should we call him Entered?

  1. #1
    My vote is yes.
  2. #2
    kroz weak whyte, frothy cuck, and former twink
    ^man i really dont like you, but yeah enter should have a new tag. I'm trying to think, something about how he's a beta or something like that.. he's like the gayest guy here besides hts
  3. #3
    man I really dont like you too Bill Krozby :)
  4. #4
    Semiazas Tuskegee Airman
    ^man I really am kind of indifferent about Toy Story 2.
  5. #5
    Sophie Pedophile Tech Support
    Man wouldn't it be weird if like, we had like a bunch of gas molecules in a special kind box with like a special kind wall separating the box into two rooms and we had like a door and every time a gas molecule approaches the door on one side the door opens so that all the fast molecules are on one side and the slow molecules on the other, we know that fast molecules have more energy and are hotter so we would end up with one hot room and one cold room. Wouldn't that like violate the second law of thermodynamics or some shit.
  6. #6
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    I've read that somewhere before/can't remember where

    enter should have a custom title though. maybe 'ladykiller'
  7. #7
    bling bling Dark Matter
    he ist gay now oh raly
  8. #8
    Sophie Pedophile Tech Support
    I've read that somewhere before/can't remember where

    enter should have a custom title though. maybe 'ladykiller'

    It's Maxwell's demon and the short answer is no, it would not violate the second law of thermodynamics, the energy cost of tracking the molecules and opening the door at the right time would be of equal or of greater value than the energy gained by separating the molecules by hot or cold.
  9. #9
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    It's Maxwell's demon and the short answer is no, it would not violate the second law of thermodynamics, the energy cost of tracking the molecules and opening the door at the right time would be of equal or of greater value than the energy gained by separating the molecules by hot or cold.


    I actually picked up a few first-year physics textbooks the other day; some guy down the street was giving away his old materials so I'll get around to reading through those at some point.

    Do the laws of thermodynamics take quantum mechanics into account, or do they break down at a small enough scale like most other classical physics principles?
  10. #10
    Semiazas Tuskegee Airman
    I've read that somewhere before/can't remember where

    enter should have a custom title though. maybe 'ladykiller'


    Like Gacy?
  11. #11
    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
    Like Gacy?



    "Hi I'm Enter and today I'll be showing you how to make a belt out of nipples. this one's not for beginners, you'll need a fair few nipples!"
  12. #12
    Sophie Pedophile Tech Support
    Do the laws of thermodynamics take quantum mechanics into account, or do they break down at a small enough scale like most other classical physics principles?

    That's an excellent question, and i think QM and TD jive, although we had to come up with this thing called Quantum Thermodynamics to study their relation to eachother.
  13. #13
    For this answer, I'm going to extend the ambit of the question from 'laws of thermodynamics' to 'ideas from thermodynamics'. The full answer to that broader question is surprising, fascinating and genuinely more interesting - as a plus, it answers this question too.

    tl;dr The laws of thermodynamics do not strictly apply at the quantum or classical microscopic level - but you can combine quantum mechanics and statistical mechanics to arrive at something remarkably satisfactory albeit incomplete.
    [h=2]A Brief Primer on Thermodynamics[/h]
    First, let's talk a little about thermodynamics itself. The 'laws of thermodynamics' is a vague term, since even in traditional thermodynamics what you mean by 'law' depends on context.

    Historically, there have always been two major branches of the subject.
    • There is, on one hand, the idea of heat and temperature applied to large macroscopic bodies, rooted in the study of heat engines, energy conservation and reversible vs. irreversible reactions. This is the famous thermodynamics, the one most useful to engineers and from where the ideal gas equation springs forth. Here, systems are characterised by states - certain parameters are presumed to pervade the system, and changes in any one constitute a new state for the system.
    • This, properly speaking, is what we usually mean by 'thermodynamics'. Its true name, however, is thermal physics.
    • There is then the other thermodynamics, which seeks to move past generic desiscriptions of large macroscopic bodies and write abstract thermodynamical quantities in terms of physically real phenomena. Temperature becomes the statistical average of particle energy; pressure the statistical average of molecular collisions; and large macroscopic systems can now be described in terms of the averages of the states of its constituents.
    • This branch of thermodynamics is called statistical mechanics, and it is the backbone of all we study in thermodynamics.

    [h=2]Why This Distinction is Needed[/h]
    Interestingly enough, the three laws of thermodynamics do not make sense or hold when it comes to statistical mechanics.

    Oh, energy is definitely conserved, but the definition of entropy changes radically enough that you can see it decrease spontaneously [FONT=MathJax_Main]1[/FONT][FONT=MathJax_Main],[/FONT][FONT=MathJax_Main]2[/FONT], and the third law of thermodynamics (that entropy is zero at zero Kelvin) does not hold for imperfect systems like glass or carbon monoxide. The zeroth law doesn't even make sense when you think in terms of particle collisions.

    And all of this is without bringing quantum mechanics into the mix! This all comes of studying systems classically or semi-classically (where constraints from quantum mechanics on the possible states of a system are taken into account) - typically, this is the sort of material you will find being covered in undergraduate physics lectures. So you see that asking whether the laws of thermodynamics carry over into quantum mechanics is problematic: they don't even carry over cleanly in classical physics!

    A much better question, then, remains: while ideas from regular thermodynamics need not carry over perfectly, can ideas from statistical mechanics be made compatible with quantum mechanics?
    [h=2]Integrating Quantum Mechanics with Statistical Mechanics[/h]
    The answer is a resounding yes, but not without changes. These changes may seem superficial at first glance, but are actually quite deep.

    The application of ideas from thermodynamics to quantum systems is known as quantum statistical mechanics. This is the foundation of modern statistical mechanics, and its roots go back to von Neumann's era.

    Quantum mechanics' core idea is the replacement of properties with operators: instead of saying that energy is a property of an object, it says that there is an associated function with the object which, when you apply a mathematical operation to it (hence operator), returns a set of possible values.

    A very naive way to begin to do quantum statistical mechanics is to replace properties with their corresponding operators. So, instead of using energy in the expression for the canonical ensemble, you use the Hamiltonian operator, and continue this practice everywhere. But this is just the start.

    Some more ideas that are modified in the transition:
    • Instead of using distributions (like the Boltzmann or Fermi-Dirac distribution) of properties, physicists now use density matrices - matrices that describe a mixture of different quantum states.
    • Instead of the traditional statistical mechanics version of entropy:

    we use instead the Von Neumann entropy, which is meant to be used over the density matrix of a system:
    • where we take the trace of the density matrix multiplied by its logarithm. (I'd offer a good physical interpretation of this in terms of the eigenvalues of the matrix, but I think that is too much to ask in this case)
    • The time evolution of the system in question is now derived directly from Schrodinger's equation, rather than through complicated particle interactions.
    These may seem like simple analogous replacements of conventional statistical mechanics, but they hide an important and significant distinction: everything now obeys the postulates of quantum mechanics. Every particle has been replaced by its wave-function, and our task, in quantum statistical mechanics, is to solve the really, really hard many-body Schrödinger equation for the behaviour of the system. It's a fundamentally different way of dealing with and looking at things [FONT=MathJax_Main]3[/FONT].
    [h=2]An Open Challenge[/h]
    We now have a generally good framework for at least probing questions in statistical mechanics of a quantum nature. But are there aspects of quantum mechanics that are not seemingly reconcilable with the nature of thermodynamics?

    Yes. Quantum mechanics features only unitary time evolution - what we usually take to mean reversible changes - so a theory of statistical mechanics (which has to allow for irreversible changes to a system - you can't turn glass back into the sand it used to be, can you?) would seem to be incomplete: unable to reproduce all of the reality we see. As a corollary, the second law of thermodynamics cannot be derived in quantum statistical mechanics - for all intents and purposes, we cannot recover irreversible changes in a system at the quantum level.

    This issue is explored (but not completely resolved) in immense depth in Christian Gogolin's review paper on the foundations of quantum statistical mechanics, and has been tackled by giants like Schrodinger and von Neumann themselves. It remains an outstanding theoretical problem to obtain true irreversibility in quantum statistical mechanics, and we have not come too close to solving it. At best, we can arrive at pseudo-Second Laws - not the whole thing.
    [h=2]Summary[/h]
    This has been a general overview of the state of quantum statistical mechanics today. Yes, there are aspects of thermodynamics that are irreconcilable with quantum mechanics, namely that irreversible processes for systems left to themselves do occur in nature but not in quantum mechanics. Reproducing the second law of thermodynamics from quantum statistical mechanics is still a difficult challenge theoretically, and has not been accomplished.
    [1] Mark Eichenlaub's radical ideas about entropy, however, can salvage this situation somewhat.

    [2] This is not to say that the second law in thermal physics (in other words, for macroscopic bodies) cannot be recovered from statistical mechanics - it definitely can. But in statistical mechanics, it only holds on average - systems mostly tend towards increased entropy, but there are times where the entropy can decrease. This is the gist of Lubos Motl's answer on Physics StackExchange (which I've linked to).

    [3] Quantum statistical mechanics is an intensely theoretical field, closer to mathematics than physics, if anything. As a consequence, I am not actually aware of situations where quantum statistical mechanics provides better results than traditional statistical mechanics - I would be greatly interested in such an example, and I'll thank anyone who has one to share it with me.
  14. #14
    bling bling Dark Matter
    bunvp
  15. #15
    No he should change his name to Exit and make this his profile pic



    and this will be his new theme song.


  16. #16
    Semiazas Tuskegee Airman
    Good one, Potsy.
  17. #17
    bling bling Dark Matter
    r u u all still postin in tit thread bummin him off jsut let im chill
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