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Real Talk: The Truth
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2016-10-24 at 8:38 PM UTCMy apologies for not replying to this sooner.
No.
If someone were to argue that you are wrong and claim that truth is universally preferable, what would your argument be?yes
If someone were to argue that you are wrong and claim that the truth is not universally preferable, what would your argument be?I think the question is not if it is universally preferable but rather if it is universal.
I suppose that is a good point, definitions matter, I think the basic idea of Truth is that it is universally, objectively, absolutely true. Do you disagree?I would assert that the truth is universal.
… the truth inevitably finding it's way back to you and forcing you to acknowledge it, one way or another
I agree. Let's go with this for now. I saw this in another thread and thought this would be a more appropriate thread to discuss it:The truth is more important than happiness.
This is a great statement to question and something I had in mind when I created this thread. Is the truth more important than happiness? It appears that this is not true for everyone, I can probably dream up some examples of people who may prefer not to know the truth if it meant they will be happier. There's an old saying, ignorance is bliss. On the other hand we have all heard that "Knowledge is Power" and if truth is knowledge then knowing the truth gives you a sort of power, and power seems to make a lot of people happy. Power can be used to help or to harm. If there is a clear answer to this question I cannot see it, so please, tell me why you think the truth is more important than happiness, or tell me why you think happiness is more important than the truth.
Also, is honesty similar to truth? If you believe truth is more important than happiness, do you believe being honest is as important as knowing the truth? -
2016-10-25 at 1:28 AM UTC
My apologies for not replying to this sooner.
That's quite alright.If someone were to argue that you are wrong and claim that truth is universally preferable, what would your argument be?
You need to make the distinction between telling the truth and the truth itself. I would argue that telling the truth is not universally preferable, because if someone means you or someone else harm and you can protect them by telling a lie i think you should.This is a great statement to question and something I had in mind when I created this thread. Is the truth more important than happiness? It appears that this is not true for everyone, I can probably dream up some examples of people who may prefer not to know the truth if it meant they will be happier. There's an old saying, ignorance is bliss. On the other hand we have all heard that "Knowledge is Power" and if truth is knowledge then knowing the truth gives you a sort of power, and power seems to make a lot of people happy. Power can be used to help or to harm. If there is a clear answer to this question I cannot see it, so please, tell me why you think the truth is more important than happiness, or tell me why you think happiness is more important than the truth.
Also, is honesty similar to truth? If you believe truth is more important than happiness, do you believe being honest is as important as knowing the truth?
I prefer the truth over happiness because the better informed i am about reality the better the decisions i can make based on it, or not should i desire. Ultimately freedom to make decisions based on the best available knowledge is more important than happiness. -
2016-10-25 at 4:08 PM UTC
You need to make the distinction between telling the truth and the truth itself. I would argue that telling the truth is not universally preferable, because if someone means you or someone else harm and you can protect them by telling a lie i think you should.
Maybe this is situational. In this hypothetical situation, this persons happiness appears to be more important to you than telling the truth and dealing with the consequences, therefore in such a situation we could say that you prefer this persons happiness over telling the truth. In a word, "telling the truth" is honesty, so we could say that in such a situation you prefer happiness over honesty. But honesty isn't always about ratting someone out. Sometimes people aren't even honest with themselves.
You've stated before that truth is more important than happiness, in your next paragraph you mention your reasoning as to why, yet it appears that you would be willing to obscure the truth to ensure happiness in specific situations. This seems like contradiction so maybe I'm missing something. You mention it is important to make a distinction between telling the truth and the truth itself, so maybe you mean that a persons own knowledge of the truth is more important than their own happiness, but a persons own happiness is more important than allowing someone else to discover the truth?
If I am understanding you correctly, can you explain why happiness is more important than the truth is these types of situations?I prefer the truth over happiness because the better informed i am about reality the better the decisions i can make based on it, or not should i desire. Ultimately freedom to make decisions based on the best available knowledge is more important than happiness.
Is that actually true though? Is the power/freedom that truth provides really more important than happiness? In certain situations, as mentioned above, we can imagine that the truth may actually reduce the amount of power or freedom that an individual has.
We can also imagine that in some situations learning the truth may not actually grant you any significant power or freedom at all. Imagine you are happy and content living your life, and you suddenly learned a terrible and depressing truth about your life, a truth so horrible that it destroys your happiness and actually drives you towards suicide. Would you still rather learn that truth than continue to live in blissful ignorance? Would you share your terrible knowledge with others, knowing that it would destroy their happiness as well? -
2016-10-26 at 12:13 PM UTCBump
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2016-10-27 at 12:48 PM UTCWtf
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2016-10-27 at 1:31 PM UTC
Maybe this is situational. In this hypothetical situation, this persons happiness appears to be more important to you than telling the truth and dealing with the consequences, therefore in such a situation we could say that you prefer this persons happiness over telling the truth. In a word, "telling the truth" is honesty, so we could say that in such a situation you prefer happiness over honesty. But honesty isn't always about ratting someone out. Sometimes people aren't even honest with themselves.
You've stated before that truth is more important than happiness, in your next paragraph you mention your reasoning as to why, yet it appears that you would be willing to obscure the truth to ensure happiness in specific situations. This seems like contradiction so maybe I'm missing something. You mention it is important to make a distinction between telling the truth and the truth itself, so maybe you mean that a persons own knowledge of the truth is more important than their own happiness, but a persons own happiness is more important than allowing someone else to discover the truth?
If I am understanding you correctly, can you explain why happiness is more important than the truth is these types of situations?
I ain't even gonna' lie, i just realized that "truth is more important than happiness" is not a principle in my mind. But interpersonal dogma. Lel, so, in risk of sounding like the ultimate douchebag here is what i found:
My understanding of the truth is of overriding importance to your happiness.
The rest is ex post facto salad dressing to make the thing seem more palatable. Funny thing is, now that i am aware i have a hard time seeing how this is bad from an emotional standpoint, lol. I want to say: So? Principles be damned, but the rational part of my brain is fighting real hard against that. Cognitive dissonance is real yo.
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2016-10-28 at 9:34 PM UTCTell me if I'm understanding you correctly; you're saying a part of you would rather be happy even if that means not knowing the truth, while another part of you believes that the truth is more important than happiness, and this conflict is causing you to experience cognitive dissonance. If I'm understanding you correctly, that's interesting. The next question this brings to my mind is which one should be more important, happiness or truth? Or does it even matter?
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2016-10-28 at 9:44 PM UTChappiness adn sadness meen nothing adn are the same thing u r retardded
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2016-10-28 at 9:45 PM UTCfuccing belend
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2016-10-29 at 5:59 AM UTCI think the naked truth is that neither learning the truth or finding happiness is inherently better or more important than the other, whichever a person prefers is simply their personal preference and neither really matter in a way that goes beyond that, at least as far as we are able to tell. Sadly, some people don't know which they truly prefer; sometimes after regretfully learning the truth a person might realize they prefer the happiness they had before, while others who may already blissfully ignorant would prefer to discover truths they are not aware of.
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2016-11-02 at 6:17 AM UTC[FONT=Lucida Grande]Cognitive dissonance is produced by harmonic discord among the vibrations defining ideas, images, and sounds. All differences produce cognitive dissonance until discordant phases are cancelled and the remaining vibrations are resolved into a harmonically integrated gestalt in a higher dimension, like a musical chord.[/FONT]
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2016-11-02 at 6:25 AM UTC
[FONT=Lucida Grande]Cognitive dissonance is produced by harmonic discord among the vibrations defining ideas, images, and sounds. All differences produce cognitive dissonance until discordant phases are cancelled and the remaining vibrations are resolved into a harmonically integrated gestalt in a higher dimension, like a musical chord.[/FONT]
cognitive dissonance is the state of holding two contradictory beliefs and refusing to resolve the contradiction -
2016-11-02 at 1:24 PM UTC[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=14px]The barber is the "one who shaves all those, and those only, who do not shave themselves." The question is, does the barber shave himself[/SIZE][/FONT]
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2016-11-03 at 3:22 AM UTC
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2016-11-03 at 3:42 AM UTC
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=14px]The barber is the "one who shaves all those, and those only, who do not shave themselves." The question is, does the barber shave himself[/SIZE][/FONT]
yes, then regrets it
