Free Trade vs. Protectionism

1. 2017-02-27 at 5:30 AM UTC

   #1
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole
   As much as I like hating on Bill Krozby and whatnot, there needs to be more worthwhile discussions around here.
   
   As a result, the topic I propose this time is: Free Trade vs. Protectionism. Pick a side and have at it. Please note that neither of these positions are necessarily left or right, so let's try our best to steer clear of party politics. M'kay?
   
   If you don't know what Free Trade and Protectionism are, even after a Google definition, well, retards need not participate.
   
   Ready, set, go!
2. 2017-02-27 at 5:36 AM UTC

   #2
   

   aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
   extremely complicated issue
   
   ideally free trade would be the way to go, but since various countries have different levels of capability in terms of what they can produce and how competitive they can be (not to mention rampaging currency and market manipulation), protectionism is often necessary to maintain industries that in turn maintain the country's economy
   
   I do think that as a general rule, countries should avoid as much as possible relying on imports for critical products such as food, power generation etc.
3. 2017-02-27 at 5:38 AM UTC

   #3
   cerakote African Astronaut
   free trade
   
   nobody likes commies
4. 2017-02-27 at 5:38 AM UTC

   #4
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole
   Alright. Let's scale things back a bit then. Free Trade and Protectionism in America - not globally.
5. 2017-02-27 at 5:39 AM UTC

   #5
   

   aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
   lolwat, protectionism has nothing to do with communism
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   • Lanny
6. 2017-02-27 at 5:42 AM UTC

   #6
   cerakote African Astronaut

   Originally posted by aldra lolwat, protectionism has nothing to do with communism

   
   shitposting
7. 2017-02-27 at 5:45 AM UTC

   #7
   The Self Taught Man Black Hole

   Originally posted by cerakote shitposting

   
   Out! Out of my thread!
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   • cerakote
8. 2017-02-27 at 5:50 AM UTC

   #8
   

   aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition
   I guess the core of it is that free trade allows different producers compete on equal ground, regardless of the fact that those different producers have vastly different costs for production. an item of equal quality manufactured in the US is generally a whole lot more expensive than one manufactured in China for two main reasons - labour costs, and hence living standards are lower, and the US obsesses over 'intellectual property' to a far greater degree than any manufacturing country.
   
   the only way to compete is to lower manufacturing costs to a similar level. robotics will facilitate this to some degree, but we're nowhere near stamping out a human labour force.
   
   protectionism isn't really viable in the long-term - capitalism's friend globalism is 'a wrecking ball', as per Soros, and has spent the last few decades crushing disagreeable nations to open up markets - the US will not be spared.
   
   protectionism raises foreign competitors' costs to those of domestic manufacturers, but should only really be seen as a reprieve for them to work out a way to be more competitive, not an industry expectation.
9. 2017-02-27 at 5:55 AM UTC

   #9
   cerakote African Astronaut
   yfw you can get car parts for half of oreillys price on amazon
   
   what a time to be alive
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   • aldra
10. 2017-02-27 at 5:59 AM UTC

    #10
    

    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition

    Originally posted by cerakote yfw you can get car parts for half of oreillys price on amazon
    
    what a time to be alive

    
    download engine schematics and send them off to a CNC shop
    
    "you wouldn't download a car......"
11. 2017-02-27 at 6 AM UTC

    #11
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole

    Originally posted by aldra I guess the core of it is that free trade allows different producers compete on equal ground, regardless of the fact that those different producers have vastly different costs for production. an item of equal quality manufactured in the US is generally a whole lot more expensive than one manufactured in China for two main reasons - labour costs, and hence living standards are lower, and the US obsesses over 'intellectual property' to a far greater degree than any manufacturing country.
    
    the only way to compete is to lower manufacturing costs to a similar level. robotics will facilitate this to some degree, but we're nowhere near stamping out a human labour force.

    
    Exactly. Free trade is wonderful, but only works when supported by free market policies. Otherwise manufacturers will leave for less restrictive environments and the US will be left with a shit ton of regulations and no one to impose them on.
    
    

    Originally posted by aldra protectionism isn't really viable in the long-term - capitalism's friend globalism is 'a wrecking ball', as per Soros, and has spent the last few decades crushing disagreeable nations to open up markets - the US will not be spared.
    
    protectionism raises foreign competitors' costs to those of domestic manufacturers, but should only really be seen as a reprieve for them to work out a way to be more competitive, not an industry expectation.

    
    Protectionism could arguably be used temporarily to reset the scales and pull companies back to the US after their mass exodus, but once again, if the rules and regulations are not lifted the government will essentially suffocate all of the businesses.
    
12. 2017-02-27 at 6:02 AM UTC

    #12
    cerakote African Astronaut

    Originally posted by aldra "you wouldn't download a car……"

    
    thatswhereyourewrongkiddo.bmp
13. 2017-02-27 at 6:10 AM UTC

    #13
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    I am 100% on the protectionists side but the laws should be dictated equally for all nations. I don't mean a flat rate, but there should be some sort of algorithm which makes these laws fair and not like the fucking 20% tariff on China that Trump proposed during his campaign. I think the laws should be made in such a way that discourages things like slavery and child labor (among other things which cheapen the cost of production) by raising the taxes to import/take advantage of such things. I feel like free trade only works in nations of equal 'value.'
14. 2017-02-27 at 6:10 AM UTC

    #14
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole

    Originally posted by cerakote thatswhereyourewrongkiddo.bmp

    
    Damnit. Get out of my thread fat fuck. Take your shenanigans elsewhere.
15. 2017-02-27 at 6:15 AM UTC

    #15
    cerakote African Astronaut
    disgruntled yodeling
16. 2017-02-27 at 6:18 AM UTC

    #16
    

    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition

    Originally posted by Dargo Protectionism could arguably be used temporarily to reset the scales and pull companies back to the US after their mass exodus, but once again, if the rules and regulations are not lifted the government will essentially suffocate all of the businesses.

    
    I think the problem there is that domestic manufacturers are unlikely to find a way to compete - they're already at an extreme disadvantage. the more logical thing, from the nation's point of view at least, would be to cultivate industries that they have an advantage in, something that other countries cannot provide at a similar cost.
    
    just generally speaking though, I think most first-world countries' workforces need to be more 'agile'. Companies need to be able to rapidly expand, shrink or change strategy depending on the market, and the host of safety nets and benefits (both personal and corporate) make this very difficult.
    
    for example, at the moment the focus is on retaining staff regardless of utility and providing large severance payouts to allow them the time to find a similar job - it would make more economic sense to make it simpler and less crippling for (especially small) companies to make workers redundant, as well as opening up the job market so there's less need for unemployment benefits on the whole
17. 2017-02-27 at 6:19 AM UTC

    #17
    

    aldra JIDF Controlled Opposition

    Originally posted by Discount Whore I am 100% on the protectionists side but the laws should be dictated equally for all nations. I don't mean a flat rate, but there should be some sort of algorithm which makes these laws fair and not like the fucking 20% tariff on China that Trump proposed during his campaign. I think the laws should be made in such a way that discourages things like slavery and child labor (among other things which cheapen the cost of production) by raising the taxes to import/take advantage of such things. I feel like free trade only works in nations of equal 'value.'

    
    
    that presupposes the notion of a governing body for the entire world that overrides individual rights of states you dirty globalist
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    • The Self Taught Man
18. 2017-02-27 at 6:21 AM UTC

    #18
    cerakote African Astronaut
    command economies have a clear advantage in that regard
19. 2017-02-27 at 4:44 PM UTC

    #19
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    Infowars.com Infowars.com
20. 2017-02-27 at 4:44 PM UTC

    #20
    The Self Taught Man Black Hole
    Infowars.com